r/StarWars 15d ago

If we watch only movies, is Count Dooku a villain? Movies

We don’t see him commit really villanous acts. He just talks about the Republic being corrupt, he looks just like an ambitious politician, but not an evil Sith Lord. He fights Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda then at the beginning of Ep 3 he fights again and is killed (a pity that such a great actor was used so little). He doesn’t even have yellow eyes

0 Upvotes

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u/Audience_Over Rebel 15d ago

Well i mean, he helps to manipulate a puppet war that tears the galaxy apart and leads to the destruction of both the Jedi Order and the Republic as a governmental body, as well as an untold number of deaths, so...yes

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 15d ago

Is he fully aware of all that? Does he know about Palpatine’s plans or he is using him blind?

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u/NerdHistorian Torra Doza 15d ago

he knows that palpatines plan is to use the CIS to scare the republic into giving the central government absolute power while centralizing every other center of power and resistance into a faction to be destroyed, yes, with the explict goal of becoming a sith ruled empire.

the only part he didn't see coming was that he was not going to survive to benefit, and even that had more to do with his failure to prove himself the more deserving apprentice than anakin to palpatine than any inability to carry him over and blame others for his crimes.

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u/Randomman96 Inferno Squad 15d ago

Both.

He was well aware of much of Palpatine's intentions for the war, especially the Clone Army, as well as the ultimate goal of the war being the transformation of the Republic into an Empire.

What he didn't know was his actual role in Palpatine's puppet show, or what Palpatine intended to be the Seperatist's actual reward for their part in it. He believed he was truly Palpatine's apprentice, not for him to be a tool used to prepare and test Anakin for his fall to the Dark Side. Nor did he know, or would ever know, that the CIS was purely there to get the Republic to expand it's forces outward and spread the Jedi thin to ensure he can bring as much of the civilized galaxy under the banner of his impending Empire as much as possible.

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u/NotAnotherPornAccout 15d ago

He did try to assassinate a politician that was against the war because he knew he could only win through war.

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 12d ago

It seems to me that assassination attempt on Padme is made just to make Obi-Wan discover the clones on Kamino. If not for that “coincidence”, the Clone wars could not start. The assassination is very poorly executed

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u/NotAnotherPornAccout 12d ago

I’d say it went off without a hitch. In the past she always stayed in close contact so even if she wasn’t dressed AS the queen she’d at least be in the same room probably. Her disguised as a pilot is a extra layer of security she didn’t show in the first film. How could they have predicted that?

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 11d ago

Ok, how would then the clones be discovered if the assassination succeeded?

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u/NotAnotherPornAccout 11d ago

Tons of ways. Palpatine could literally start the crisis then announce that the kaminoins have fortunately come to him asking about delivery of an army that the Jedi graciously paid for and that the Republic has an army at its disposal. The assassination wasn’t the only way it could have gone, just the way it appeared on screen.

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u/NerdHistorian Torra Doza 15d ago

I feel like starting a war for the benefit of your overlord so they can take over the galaxy and commit a genocide is pretty villainous, personally.

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u/orionsfyre 15d ago edited 15d ago

Did you forget the part where he presided over a stadium full of blood thirsty insect creatures and unleashed various monsters upon his padawan's padawan (Obi Wan), innocent Padme, and his Padawan's Padawan's padawan (Anakin), and the part where his former comrades arrive to arrest him for the obvious crime of treason and rebellion against the republic... and he unleashes thousands of droids in a clear act of said treason and rebellion which then proceed to gun them down without mercy?

Yeah, that's peak villain behavior right there. I'm not even talking about the clear obvious gas lighting he tries with Obi-wan in telling him that there is a dark lord control of the Republic where it's made clear later that he is in-league with said dark lord?

And let not even talk about the scene where he meets with a Sith lord, and discusses exactly how they are going to murder the jedi and destroy the republic, killing countless millions of people in the process?

There is no justification for beginning a galactic war just because you think corruption is bad. That's like blowing up an entire city because a couple of city council members are on the take. This isn't a pov situation. He was simply a tool of Palpatine, and thought He was gaining real power by following his evil plan.

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u/Rogan_Creel 15d ago

Absolutely

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u/TanSkywalker Anakin Skywalker 15d ago

He arrange for Pamdé assassination to get Nute Gunray and the Trade Federation to join his side. He was secretly assembling an army to go to war with the Republic and help secretly create a clone army that would fight for the Republic. Clones, living beings, created to fight, suffer, and die all so he and his master could purge the Jedi, turn the Republic into an Empire, and rule the galaxy as he saw fit.

He's a villain!

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u/matthew_the_cashew Ahsoka Tano 15d ago edited 15d ago

Sifo-Dyas was actually the one who commissioned the clone army. Sifo-Dyas had a profound ability of seeing premonitions. Sifo-Dyas has a premonition of the ensuing turmoil and commissioned the clone army entirely out of good intentions. Darth Sidious / Dooku just ended up hijacking this and using it against the Jedi / Republic

this is ultimately one of the reasons Dooku killed Sifo-Dyas (despite being best friends); if he killed the only Jedi / Republic representative that knew about the commission of the clone army, he would be free to mold the army's construction to his needs

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u/TanSkywalker Anakin Skywalker 15d ago

The question is only about Dooku from the movies. The most logical answer, using just the movies, is Dooku used Sifo-Dyas’s identity to place the order for the clones so the Jedi would think it was Sifo-Dyas who removed Kamino from the archives.

Whether Sifo just happened to die at a convenient time or Dooku killed him to use his identity is up to you. I go with Dooku killing Sifo because Dooku is a baddie now.

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u/KainZeuxis Jedi 15d ago

He attempting assassinations on innocent people, built weapons of mass destruction with the intent to use them on civilians and non combatants, was working on building planet killers, and let’s not forget, helped created an entire war causing billions of lives to suffer all so he and his master could take power.

Dooku is an evil bastard. Starting out with some honorable intentions doesn’t make you less of a monster when you start targeting innocent people.

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u/in_a_dress Asajj Ventress 14d ago

The movie opens with him ordering the assassination attempt on Padme to fuel the tensions and help create a war.

Then, he gives the most half assed “truth” about the republic being corrupt, lets Obi Wan be sent to the chopping block for not joining him, runs away to his master, then in the next movie fights them again. He also trained Grevious to be a better Jedi killer.

This is all that he does in the movie. It’s pretty clear he’s not a good person.

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u/matthew_the_cashew Ahsoka Tano 15d ago

ambitious politician

yup, he's a villain.

In all seriousness, some things that could classify him as a villain imo (just in the movies):

- the part he played in the conspiracy to create the death star

- him trying to kill unarmed Anakin/Obi-wan several times

- he hired Jango Fett to assassinate Padme

- playing into a fabricated galaxy-wide war as an end to his means

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 15d ago

It just seems for me somehow that he isn’t as convincing a villain as Palpatine, Darth Vader, Darth Maul or Grievous. Maybe it’s just my impression

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u/matthew_the_cashew Ahsoka Tano 15d ago

your perception is likely because he's incredibly diplomatic, which creates a facade of civility. These are attributes that villains don't usually have, one of the many reasons why Count Dooku is one of the best written and just overall coolest characters in all of Star Wars

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u/Serres5231 15d ago

Wow i dont know how you can be some kind of „dooku did nothing wrong!!!“ person but yikes maybe rewatch the Movies again??

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 15d ago

Maybe it’s because Christopher Lee is too cool

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u/d0gzfy Yoda 14d ago

No, he's a political idealist, not a murderer.

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u/EndlessTheorys_19 14d ago

Obviously, he’s a Sith Lord.

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u/Oldmangamer00 15d ago

That depends on your point of view

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u/NerdHistorian Torra Doza 15d ago

there aren't many valid point of views where dookus on screen actions can not be seen as the actions of a villian.

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u/Shreddzzz93 15d ago edited 14d ago

I'd call him villainous, but never the villain. The issue is that we don't really see him do anything directly in AotC, and in RotS, he gets played the fool. All in, he's a henchman for the real villain of the story and never the villain himself.

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u/Serres5231 14d ago

We… literally see him do plenty of things?! What about slicing Anakins arm off?? what about genuinely dueling with Yoda, nearly dropping a pillar on Anakin and Obi Wan…

Did you look away each time when Dooku appeared or what??

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u/MeanFaithlessness701 15d ago

That was my impression precisely

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u/NerdHistorian Torra Doza 14d ago edited 14d ago

you should probably rewatch the movies then since it's not much of an accurate impression. .