Just watched Solo and I'm convinced that Star Wars fans are tripping.

[u/iamwhoiwasnow]

Or maybe they use to be tripping? When Solo first came out I heard nothing about bad things about it so like an idiot I stayed away from it thinking it would suck. Well I just finished watching the prequels and decided to watch Solo since I was in the mood for more Star Wars and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I liked it a lot. Part of it genuinely felt like war which Star WARS really tends to lack a lot.

One thing I loved about Roque One was that it killed off everyone and there was no happy ending really and Solo did the same. I genuinely liked the four main characters that died and Han didn't get the girl in the end. I wish more movies did this and not because they are forced to because of continuity.

[u/Old-Explanation-3324]

Plagueis should have been there from the start to corrupt the witches. This cliffhanger makes no Sense. Vader is very unhinged, dissapoint him once and you die. Palpatine keeps himself in check to fool the Jedi. The Jedi are not lying. They are stoic lawful neutral to the extreme. Explaining everything could lead to strong emotions. And strong emotions lead to the dark side. So not sharing is keeping the corruption in check. To me that is the flaw of the Jedi. Lawful neutral No matter what. Dooku tells the truth to corrupt Obi wan. Its a "you cant handle the truth" Situation if you are not prepared to handle it, the truth will Trigger you into Anger. You are right that acolyte did some Exploration into the flaws of the Jedi, but handled it poorly in my opinion. They had no reason to lie, the witch became a wierd Monster. This should have been a movie. Plagueis corrupt the witches in secret to test his sith sorcery. The Jedi destroy the witches because of Sith sorcery usage but cannot tell the sisters the truth because they are to young and "cannot handle the truth". One sister gets to emotional about it and qimir recruits her. You are right that the flawed Jedi Philosophy needs to be shown. I Just dont think acolyte did a good Job.

[u/Chops526 → u/Old-Explanation-3324]

I don't disagree about Plagueis.

I disagree about your reading of the Jedi/Sith, but I don't hate it, either.

I do think what we have, with Sol simply having misread a situation and causing a disaster is far more interesting from a storytelling angle than having it be the result of the kids being too young to handle the truth. Luke wasn't too young to handle the truth of his father's identity, yet Yoda and Obi-Wan keep it from him. And Luke is highly emotional, but is able to control it and become a better jedi and a better person for it. The flaw of the jedi, to me, is this fear of emotion and attachment. And we know what fear leads to. 😉

[u/Old-Explanation-3324 → u/Chops526]

Yoda and Obi Wan follow the stoic path of training first, truth later. I dont understand how Sol has misread the situation. The witch became a wierd smoke monster and tried to kill one of the girls. The story did not need that at all. That is my problem with the acolyte, instead of following a coherent story they throw parts in that make no sense. We are talking about the same jedi flaw but phrase it differently. Fear of emotion because emotion corrupts. Emotion will lead to the dark side. Humans cannot control their emotion without training and need to be constantly watchful over their emotions. Attachment is even worse. We will do things to protect the ones we love even if it hurts others. The old KOTOR games explore this quite well. The Jedi are not wrong, but they lack the empathy to exlain themself better. Something Acolyte could have explored without smoke monsters, jedi cover up for no reason and sith recruitment by looking at private parts thirsttraps. it feels like it does not take itself seriously enough.

[u/Chops526 → u/Old-Explanation-3324]

The smoke monster is explained as Mother whatsername protecting her child. She was not intending to cause harm, only to hide the kids. She explains this to Sol with her dying words. Instead of listening or observing the situation, he assumed belicosity from the witches (Night Sisters. Let's name the elephant in the room here) . He made an assumption that led him to fail at controlling his dangerous emotions. I suppose in that way, you're on to something?

I think we're disagreeing on whether or not this stoicism of the jedi is correct or not. It's one of the few issues I have with Buddhism: attachment is essential to a meaningful life. Maybe it's my Western, neo-platonist Christian background speaking, maybe it's being older, but attachment to loved ones is one of the most important sources of meaning in a meaningless universe. The jedi, like the stoics, miss an aspect of this. Because of course they do; they're only "human," after all.

The jedi cover up is a big, hanging thread now, yeah. But I, for one, would be interested in seeing where it was going.

As to thirsttraps and Star Wars, may I refer you to the case of Leia Organa v. Jabba the Hutt? 😉 Come on. This franchise could use a bit more sexiness.

[u/Old-Explanation-3324 → u/Chops526]

In defense of sol i would have killed her to. Sol knew they used force sorcery and this smoke thing looked menacing. She could have tried talking to him first. Both acted on emotions. My boomer brain (i am 43) did not catch the protection part of it. I think life does not need meaning. Attachments are nice but can also lead to harm. I think there is no harm in accepting that life, universe and existing is meaningless. Therefore i think the Jedi are correct but need to adapt their methods. Teach that you dont need meaning to be fullfilled. What meaning can you possibly Archive? You could be the strongest and the sun will still Go Supernova. The universe functions without you. You know what i mean?

I have nothing against thirst traps per se. I just think the series went to fast from "you killed all my friends" to "nice package, i Join you". 🤣

[u/Chops526 → u/Old-Explanation-3324]

Lol, I can't disagree with that. The last shot of Osha and Qmir holding hands was rather forced (pardon my pun).

We're on the same page regarding meaning. There is no meaning inherent to the universe or life within it. All we can do is make our own. I've found personal connections to be very important to navigating my own way through the universe. So being asked to give that up as a route to enlightenment is...bizarre.

I think both Sol and SoulNightsister screwed up. As did their entire communities. The witches assumed the jedi were coming to steal their kids. The jedi assumed the witches were evil and trying to create a vergence for...reasons. Cooler heads should have prevailed if there weren't elements within each community working against that and just acting out of distrust with violence. (If the other mother hadn't possessed the wookie things might have gone much differently.)

[u/Old-Explanation-3324 → u/Chops526]

It all depends if the attachment becomes stronger than reason. Like Toxic Relationships for example. The Jedi have a master/ Padawan attachment but you have to cut ties to your family. I understand your point of view. but i think strong attachments are clouding the vision. Happened to me, and most likely to all of us. Yes both Sol and the Nightsister screwed up. This is why i said it would have been better if plageuis was there and they showed him corrupting the sisters. So the distrust would have been alittle more justified.

[u/Chops526 → u/Old-Explanation-3324]

I mean, yeah.

Apropos of the conversation: I love how this has gone from kind of distrusting/confrontational to a cool and reasoned discussion. 😀

[u/Old-Explanation-3324 → u/Chops526]

I enjoy it to :-) But understandable internet discussing became so heated lately.

[u/Chops526 → u/Old-Explanation-3324]

Don't you love it? Maybe THAT'S where toxicity comes from! Just people unable to work past initial barriers to find the common points of discussion and reasonable points of disagreement.

May the force be with you.