r/MarchAgainstTrump • u/[deleted] • May 04 '17

Bernie Sanders Is Building An Army To Stop Trumpcare Dead In Its Tracks In The Senate. UPVOTE IF YOU WANT BERNIE TO KNOW WE SUPPORT HIM AND WANT TO SEE THIS STOPPED. #1 r/all

[deleted]

98.0k Upvotes

71% Upvoted

Just because you disagree with someone because it's illogical in your mind doesn't mean that a different logic can't be seen by someone with a different perspective.

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u/titsoutfortheboys2 May 05 '17

And just because other people have a different perspective it doesn't make it valid. I know I don't know all the answers and I constantly question what I think I know, but there's so much overwhelming evidence that Trump's administration is a fucking disaster I don't know how people can ignore it.

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u/JMLueckeA7X May 05 '17

This is what I mean, I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that's been done or prosper, but by saying that everything has been a complete disaster, which it obviously is in your eyes, it's illogical in your mind. Humans, by nature, are pretty logical, but keep in mind what's logical to you may not be what's logical to someone else. There will always be other opinions, especially ones you vehemently disagree with, but dismissing an opposing view as illogical feeds into the bipartisanship which got us into the political shitstorm that is modern politics.

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u/titsoutfortheboys2 May 05 '17

and enabling it and treating it as being just as valid is what has gotten us into this as well

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u/SicDigital May 05 '17

Absolutely this. My best friend was/is vehemently anti-Trump, but we were able to sit down and discuss my pros/cons of him (and why I ultimately voted for him), and my friend's views of him, and were both able to say "I disagree with X but totally understand with Y" and although we're on opposite ends of the spectrum, we're still best friends. The world isn't black and white, and neither are political views.

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u/JMLueckeA7X May 05 '17

Yup, I think more people need to acknowledge that there will always be other opinions and it's important to work together and compromise for what works for both sides.

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u/SicDigital May 05 '17

Of course. I feel that translates better IRL though.

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u/JMLueckeA7X May 05 '17

Yeah, over the internet more people are willing to argue because they're faceless, I feel people are a lot more empathetic when debating face to face.

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u/SicDigital May 05 '17

That's been my experience as well.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 05 '17

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u/this_dude_i_know May 05 '17

I want to start by expressing my deepest sympathy for the hardship and loss you and your family endured in recent years. I can completely understand how you can feel the way you do regarding the ACA. You may very well have been better off with the healthcare system as it was before. I've heard many stories of those who have been hurt by the shortcomings of the ACA, and it saddens me.

There are many though that have also benefited greatly from the legislation. The lower class especially, as you admit. I've also heard many stories of life saving treatments people had access to only because of the ACA.

I believe the goal of providing healthcare to all citizens is what we should strive for. With a universal health care system, there would be no insurer for a doctor to stop accepting. The ACA fails because it does not go far enough. By spreading the cost of healthcare across the entire population the cost would be kept affordable for everyone. Because the ACA still relies on insurance companies as middlemen, and because the leaders in many states who were against the ACA chose not to accept additional federal dollars to support their healthcare systems, the legislation was doomed to failure.

I have no doubt that going back to the way healthcare was before the ACA will benefit individuals in similar situations to yours. But I also have no doubt that everybody would benefit from expanding healthcare coverage to all people.

I don't know about how this new legislation will kill children and abandon rape victims, but pulling the funding for Medicaid expansion, raising the cap on healthcare costs for the elderly, and removing the individual mandate? That will most certainly result in loss of insurance for many millions of people. Our healthcare system needs to be fixed, but this is moving in the wrong direction.

As for your point on illegal immigration. I could be mistaken but I remember reading that the level of immigrants here "illegally" has been steadily dripping since 2009. However I don't think that it is as nearly a big a problem as people make it out to be, and if we were really worried about it we would make the process of legal immigration easier and cheaper financially.

We are one of the richest nations in the world and we are something like the 3rd largest by total landmass with only 300+ million citizens. We have the space for more people. And by incentivizing legal over illegal immigration we create a larger tax base and a more populous and powerful country. If you look back on history you'll see the most powerful civilizations were among the most populous. It stands to reason then if we wish to remain a powerful country we should encourage increasing our population.

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u/[deleted] May 05 '17

Illegal immigration slowed because people don't flee one dictatorship hell-hole for another. If half of the US spontaneously burst into flames, I suppose illegal immigration would slow as well.

Your government has danced around switching to a single payer health care system for half a century, while every other first world country has made the leap and data shows longer life spans, lower infant mortality rates, and at its worst costs approximately 1/2 the amount per capita.

Opt for a a health care plan, not a health insurance plan.