I almost don't want to say this because it might sound bad... just keep in mind that this mindset is not in line with my beliefs. But imagine the societal hilarity of immigrants doing better paying jobs like IT and medical, while the back breaking lower paying jobs go to Americans because "low skill" immigrants got deported. Is maga OK with their kids being laborers who serve well off immigrants? They're a step behind in the thought process of even their own degenerate ideas.
it seems weird to say that American conservatives would prefer that future more than American liberals. Shouldn't it be the opposite?
I've been voting for Democrats my whole life (didn't vote in 2024 though). I've been an ACLU and Amnesty International member. I've put some money into micro finance companies to help low-income people around the world.
From a liberal perspective, shouldn't we be seeking to reduce global poverty and suffering as much as possible?
And doesn't high immigration levels, from both higher- and lower-skilled foreigners, reduce poverty and suffering?
Immigrants come to the US because the job prospects in their home countries are not as good as what they're seeing in the US job market. For American liberals, isn't the most morally correct thing to do just to let the immigrants come to the US and compete for whatever jobs they can get?
For American right-wingers, the last 10 years has shown a huge rise in the Pat Buchanan nationalism-type of ideology. From what i can tell, most MAGA voters want ALL foreigners to be reduced in economic and political power. Elon Musk's loud support for H1B visas is surprising to see.
It makes a lot of sense that he would keep supporting this while keeping quiet about it.
yes and they should be helped too. but not at the expense of other, even poorer people around the world.
most people in the world have only their labor to sell. if we force american companies to NOT hire them, by blocking immigration or offshoring, we are hurting those people.
i prefer to keep american immigration numbers high, over offshoring,because that way the poor people can join our democracy. then the money stays within the democratic system and can be regulated
my view is that the American poor and the global poor should be treated equally, when it comes to immigration matters. If a poor person in the world wants to move to America, so long as they are law-abiding, they should be allowed into the country. It should not matter one bit what job skills they have.
This will increase competition for lower skill jobs, and make things harder for lower skilled Americans. But that is perfectly moral and fair.
I'm confused. Your stance is that the US should accept every single immigrant, no matter what? And that further, these immigrants should allowed equal rights and benefits to those who have already contributed and worked under our system, or their children?
170 million people is a huge number of people so i wouldn't want them to all come to the USA in a short time period, but generally I think all 170 million (so long as they are law abiding) should be allowed to come in over 10-20 years time.
As to what you're saying about "already contributed", all existing Americans are descendants of immigrants as it is. Just because some Americans have deeper roots in America's history than others, that should not be factored into the immigration debate. We should not favor Individual X because their family roots go back to 1776, while Individual Y only has roots going back to 1941, for example.
And our country should not be seen as some collective body that each individual needs to contribute to. We should prioritize individual freedom, and the pursuit of happiness as defined by each individual. Generally I would say that each immigrant (and US-born citizen) does need to be able to take care of themselves. They should not be a tax burden on anyone else.
And I don't believe that being American should be based on some general concept of "contribution". Maybe you can elaborate on what you mean by "contribution"?
I would suggest that "contribution" is far too vague a concept. There is no national goal that a majority of Americans can even agree on pursuing together. Each family is trying to have food and shelter and dignity for itself. But that is not a national goal.
He is the epitome of short-term profit seeking at the expense of everything else.
Example one: Twitter. Immediately hacked off at least 75% of the workforce in order to increase profit and did not think about the knock-on effects of such an action. Fast forward and Twitter is now a shell of its former self with a declining user base, dropping revenues, and a reputation in the flaming dumpster out back.
Example two: The model 3 was rushed out to meet deadlines despite not being ready for mass production. Reports in 2019 peaked at 101 issues reported per 100 cars delivered. Deliveries were rushed to meet quarterly delivery targets to avoid a stock price drop to the detriment of customers and investors, as coming clean about missing the delivery targets as they were improving quality would have been more ethical and probably hurt less than all the negative press.
its surprising that elon musk would be overt about supporting h1b visas though aint it?
from any ceo’s perspective it makes sense to hire h1bs as much as possible. lower cost and the workers are likely far more grateful for their jobs and will let themselves be treated like slaves. they are coming from much poorer countries and will work like hell to stay in america
as for twitter, i think the user base mostly died because musk outed himself as a white nationalist who believes in the Great Replacement Theory.
firing most of the staff was barely responsible for any reduced user traffic.
As my partner's boomer father likes to say, "At least Americans would all have jobs. You might not like your job, but you'll have one." Of course he wouldn't have to work those jobs because he is 62 and used to have money so, yeah, reasons. He also sees himself as only temporarily poor.
But its really about labor market dynamics though. Agriculture, construction, food services. Studies have consistently shown that undocumented workers fill roles US-born workers often avoid due to the nature of the work. Even during labor shortages, the jobs remain difficult to fill due to very low pay, seasonal employment, and physical demands.
With the current unemployment rate around 3.8%, this would lead to a sharp spike in unemployment, even if many workers can actually work the jobs immigrants would leave vacant.
This is so funny because the anti-communism arguments would typically fall into "but then you're stuck doing a soulless job you don't love just to keep society moving". And now we are here without communism.
due to the magic of the carceral state and the US's constitutional right to enslave citizens it has criminally convicted, they eventually won't be paying jobs at all
It just kinda depends. In theory, they wouldn’t want their kids to be the low-rung laborers below the well-educated immigrants. But if Trump and/or Elon tells them it’s a good thing, they’ll be all for it.
Most medical professionals in the US that I know or have met are American born. I don't care who they are for any political reason, but it's my observation. I also worked in a restaurant where conference people used to go, and most of the doctors and surgeons at the medical conferences were Americans. If Elon is going to change that, who knows... if education keeps crumbling, I guess there's not much else that can be done for the upcoming generations.
Not to give fElon too much credit, but maybe that's the objective.
Step 1: Push increased avenues for skilled/high education labor
Step 2: Flood the market, decreasing upper middle class earnings/wages, including in traditionally more educated areas whose high education / high info voters typically vote dem
Step 3: Blame the democrats for not policing the avenues Rs opened enough, fracturing a democrat stalwart constituency in the process
See: everything they've done with the working class
Elon Musk looks at things from the Tesla / Twitter / Paypal perspective. He wants to import H1B visa holders from other countries like India, and while there are 'laws' saying those H1B visa holders must be paid the prevailing wage, those laws aren't being enforced very well.
In addition, these are workers with no leverage because if they lose their jobs, they are deported back to India or whatever country they lived in, and the company's H1B is then given to another eager replacement. So the company can make these H1B workers work 80 hour weeks or worse.
It's hard to argue against this on Reddit because some supposed H1B worker always chimes in to say how easily they can get another job, how good the process is, etc. And for some of them it is. But for those who are getting H1Bs through sweatshops like Tata Consultancy or Infosys (who basically suck up H1B visas and resell their employees as consultants), life is much tougher.
And Americans get passed over for excellent jobs.
I prefer to describe it as building a rocket to the moon. Putting aside the fact that we got some smart Nazi rocket scientists before the Russians did and used them to help us, how do you put a man on the moon?
It takes roads, bridges, infrastructure, manufacturing, power, sewage systems, water systems - all the things required to BUILD a rocket ship with all the necessary components.
And it takes an educated population - skilled manufacturers, engineers, scientists. That all needs to start 20 years prior. It takes a college / university infrastructure, primary and secondary schools, excellent nutrition programs which the US struggled with as Great Depression kids tried to enlist in the military for WW2, housing, and so on.
It takes a long term approach which Musk isn't the best at.
This shows that only 35% of American adults have a bachelor's degree or higher. So from a democratic point of view, wouldn't it be technically beneficial for the other 65% of Americans to want to increase job competition for jobs that require bachelor's degrees or higher?
and therefore shouldn't most Americans want to increase the number of H1B visas?
It supposedly reduces the cost of labor for health and IT services…but not really. Not at all. Plus has anyone seen their healthcare premiums go down, thanks to influx of foreign nurses and doctors? Nope.
seems likely that healthcare and IT worker labor costs would be more expensive without immigration. after all, that is specifically why the corporations hired the immigrants to begin with.
now if american c-suite people and the shareholders they work for then pocketed the savings for themselves… well that seems likely too
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u/winterbird 1d ago
Oh, so immigrants are OK then.
I almost don't want to say this because it might sound bad... just keep in mind that this mindset is not in line with my beliefs. But imagine the societal hilarity of immigrants doing better paying jobs like IT and medical, while the back breaking lower paying jobs go to Americans because "low skill" immigrants got deported. Is maga OK with their kids being laborers who serve well off immigrants? They're a step behind in the thought process of even their own degenerate ideas.