r/LeopardsAteMyFace • u/Peteostro • Nov 26 '24

Trump Pledges 25% Tariffs on Mexico, Canada and 10% on China Trump

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-pledges-tariffs-on-mexico-canada-and-china-3c62b1f7

8.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

1.2k

Canada’s close behind. And if it gets into a trade war and both Mexico and Canada , two of the top three US trading partners respond with counter tariffs, things will get even worse.

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u/justasque Nov 26 '24

And if I remember correctly from last time around, Canada was getting undocumented refugees from the US, not the other way around. Tiny Canadian towns on the border were coping with an influx of refugees, most of whom crossed at freezing cold places, often without decent winter gear. So the whole “we’re keeping the tariffs until you stop the flow of fentanyl and illegal aliens from your country” thing doesn’t make a lot of sense.

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u/daveyhempton Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 26 '24

https://mainemorningstar.com/2024/08/14/congress-aims-to-boost-enforcement-at-the-border-with-canada

There are 190k attempted illegal crossings into the US from Canada. 7x higher than what it used to be just a couple of years ago fwiw.

Tariffs are still absolutely not the solution. Tying the tariffs to immigration is brain dead

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '24

[deleted]

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u/ClusterMakeLove Nov 26 '24

Lumber has been part of a Canada/US trade dispute for years, but I don't think that's where the pain will really be felt here.

The US imports a lot of energy from Canada, and the auto industries in the east have products that cross the border multiple times. I doubt manufacturing in either country could survive that.

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u/JPGaganon Nov 26 '24

Potash and other fertilizers are mostly imported from Canada. That will really hurt farmers not even mentioning that their labor supply will be limited by deportations.

There are also a lot of places that get electricity directly from Canada especially in the Northeast.

So much potential harm for many industries and consumers!

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u/phaseadept Nov 26 '24

Aluminum. . . that’s where the tariffs will be felt the most

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u/tailkinman Nov 26 '24

Well if the US government doesn't feel like honoring treaties it signed any more, there's this Columbia River thing that Canada might just start to ignore. Never mind that almost 20% of US oil consumption is covered by Canadian imports. Think gas and water are expensive now? Just wait.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Nov 26 '24

Decades.

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u/daveyhempton Nov 26 '24

That's definitely one of the imports that everyone likes to increase the tariff on both Rs and Ds. Recently, the Biden admin almost doubled the tariffs on it. The current marketshare of Canadian Lumber is roughly 20%, I wouldn't be surprised if it drops below 15 in a year or so.

To answer your question, I do believe that this may affect the house prices in the US, but certainly not as much as it would have in the past. But combine this with the tariffs on China which is where we import most of our construction materials and YES, you are looking at increased housing costs i.e., another factor that will fuck everyone looking to buy

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u/__Shadowman__ Nov 26 '24

Also because a bunch of our construction workers (especially roofers) are getting deported

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u/momibrokebothmyarms Nov 26 '24

Trump IS brain dead and RFK Jr has worms. F

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u/so-strand Nov 26 '24

Let’s not talk about the number of aliens, drugs and guns coming to Canada from the us tho.

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u/ShelfLifeInc Nov 26 '24

Trump's ONLY plan is to tie everything to immigration.

"We're going to create more jobs...by kicking out all the immigrants who would normally take them."

"We're going to boost Social Security...by kicking out all the immigrants."

"We're going to make our nation safer...by kicking out all the immigrants."

Trump's whole plan is to kick out anyone who vaguely resembles an immigrant, and to turn the US into a fuel-producing powerhouse. That's it. He assumes these two things will solve ALL the problems regarding the economy, the job market, cost of food, safety, America's place on the global stage...and if they don't, oh well, it was the Deep State's fault.

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u/justasque Nov 26 '24

That was a fascinating article, thank you for posting it.

Let’s be careful with the wording though. The article said “In 2023, CBP encountered almost 190,000 individuals attempting to cross from Canada to the United States.”. These are not “illegal crossings”, they are attempted crossings.

(The article did not give an estimate for the number of people who succeed at crossing, nor for the number of people attempting or succeeding to cross in the other direction.)

I also found it interesting that the article mentioned that undocumented immigrants are more likely to get good jobs in the US than in Canada.

The U.S. may be more appealing to migrants than Canada because of culture and the job market, Silvia Pedraza, a professor of sociology and American culture at the University of Michigan, said. Immigrants are more likely to get jobs in the U.S. than Canada, she said.

“In Canada, people (immigrants) don’t get decent jobs. They (Canadians) treat them nicely. They’re even, I would say, hospitable and warm,” said Pedraza. “The fact of the matter is that they don’t give them any jobs that are worth anything.”

“We (the U.S.) don’t give them papers, but we give them jobs,” she said, acknowledging the better job prospects immigrants seek to support themselves and their families.

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u/daveyhempton Nov 26 '24

Thanks for catching that it is "attempted", I have corrected that above.

On your other points, it's hard to find reliable updated numbers about attempted illegal crossings into Canada from the US. The Wikipedia article on Roxham Road https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxham_Road and on illegal immigration in Canada are so far the best I found - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_Canada

On the flip side, illegal crossings, especially by Indians from Canada into the US has been a hot topic both in Canada and the US. https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/10-fold-surge-in-illegal-border-crossing-as-indians-try-to-leave-canada-for-us-report-7034840

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u/justasque Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 26 '24

Wow that Roxham Road article was really comprehensive. For various reasons, for a long time I’ve listened to a lot of Canadian radio. I (vaguely) remember hearing about a lot of the incidents described in the article at the time. It was interesting to read all those bits and pieces put together in the article.

That said, genuine question: isn’t it the US’s job to keep undocumented people from entering the US, just like it’s Canada’s job when going the other way? I mean, when I cross into Canada, it’s the Canadian customs people who look at my passport and ask me where I’m from and why I’m coming to Canada and how long I plan to say and whether I have anything to declare, and vice versa when I go the other way. Like, what does Trump want Canada to do to stop people leaving Canada and coming to the US, exactly? You don’t go through Canadian screening when leaving Canada. (I ask this as if he’s a rational guy who has thought the whole thing through before tweeting about it, which, based on the last time around, is a wildly inaccurate assumption.)

Fun fact: Way back in the day, in my experience, you didn’t always have to actually produce your passport when you crossed the border. On the US side they would ask if you were a US citizen, and often if you said yes that was that and they let you in with no further ado. I’m sure this varied based on your appearance and so forth, but that was how it often went for my family. Quite different nowadays!

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u/daveyhempton Nov 26 '24

Totally agree that the onus is on the country where the immigrants are arriving to figure out what to do. Generally, what you would want to do is hire more immigration officials and judges so they can process things faster and decide on each immigration case, if needed. But Republicans don't see that as a solution at all. Their solutions are usually what a 5 year old would come up with like building a wall or going in an irrelevant direction like increasing tariffs.

Tbf they don't want to solve the problems at all. If the problems are resolved, how would they continue to fear-monger based on racism and xenophobia

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u/eldest_oyster Nov 26 '24

He has to figure out how to pay for his camps along the rio grande and his brilliant idea is tariffs on Canadian goods.

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u/SavagePlatypus76 Nov 26 '24

Where's the best place to cross so I can make my escape?

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u/Shilo788 Nov 26 '24

And they have upped the border checks further in on Rt 95 near Houlton . So the cost is more than it was.

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u/MercuryCobra Nov 26 '24

That’s already posing the increasing immigration as a problem. I have not yet heard a good argument for why I should care about illegal immigration, or why we shouldn’t just have open borders.

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u/SoRedditHasAnAppNow Nov 26 '24

Sure would be nice if all the illegal guns stopped pouring over to us from the USA. The people are generally a'ight.

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u/sirlost33 Nov 26 '24

His wife has a thing for Justin Trudeau. Allegedly.

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u/so-strand Nov 26 '24

On the other hand, it’s hard to understate how completely annoying this is for Canadians. Honestly just rip up all the trade agreements at this point.

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u/justasque Nov 26 '24

Oh, we know. I’m so sorry our lovely neighbors to the north have to deal with all of the unprofessional insanity. I have always enjoyed my many visits to Canada over the years.

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u/banjosuicide Nov 26 '24

So the whole “we’re keeping the tariffs until you stop the flow of fentanyl and illegal aliens from your country” thing doesn’t make a lot of sense.

It makes perfect (but evil) sense, as it gives the MAGA Canadians a reason to blame the Canadian government instead of trump.

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u/sometimeswhy Nov 26 '24

Also Canada and Mexico have huge problems with American guns coming across the border.

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u/Impossible-Sweet2151 Nov 26 '24

Here in Quebec, the gouvernement is already sending extra security at the borders. Immigration's been a pretty big deal here for a while since we've been struggling with housing and a lot of people aren't exactly thrilled at the idea of a bunch of americans refugee making things even worst.

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u/Kaspur78 Nov 26 '24

China will also respond with (targeted) counter tariffs, so that makes 3 out of 3.

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u/onthefence928 Nov 26 '24

A large part of rural America is entirely dependent on exporting soy to China. It’s kind of ironic. If China counter tariffs soy, then the damage to entire states in the rural middle will be catastrophic

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u/Balphon Nov 26 '24

That’s more or less what happened following the trade war in the first Trump administration. It led to a large increase in farm subsidies.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/14/donald-trump-coronavirus-farmer-bailouts-359932

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u/Raskalbot Nov 26 '24

So if I’m understanding every comment above this one correctly… this guys trying to fuck us!

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u/nexisfan Nov 26 '24

Not a single person is joking when we say he is literally a Russian agent

This is what Russia would to to destroy us.

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u/DiscombobulatedHat19 Nov 26 '24

They can go fuck themselves as they voted for this shit

3

u/TooStrangeForWeird Nov 26 '24

But all of us who voted are still fucked too :( I was supposed to vote by mail but it never came, so I showed up in person to vote anyways. I made the effort I could. I tried to make sure the people I know voted. I'm fucked anyways.

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u/DiscombobulatedHat19 Nov 26 '24

The whole country is fucked. I have sympathy for anyone who voted against it but trump voters deserve everything coming their way.

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u/TooStrangeForWeird Nov 26 '24

Yeah that's pretty much how I feel too. It's gonna suck.

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u/YossarianGolgi Nov 26 '24

The market will have spoken. At least the market structure they knowingly voted for.

This sort of Natural Selection could make it easier to teach evolution in schools.

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u/brioche_01 Nov 26 '24

During the first Trump term, China actually made a point of putting tariffs on products that were produced in red states. I though that was pretty clever, not gonna lie.

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u/AwfulFonzarelli Nov 26 '24

He’ll pay the farmers off, he did last time.

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u/JohnNDenver Nov 26 '24

Pretty sure the Dem Senators and Congress voted for it too. Can't have the farmers getting what they voted for.

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u/onthefence928 Nov 26 '24

that stops the bleeding but doesnt solve the problem

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u/JohnNDenver Nov 26 '24

China just shifted their buying to other countries.

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u/Shilo788 Nov 26 '24

Nah they screwed that market last Trump term . China found new soy suppliers and Mexico buys alot of corn from US. They will fuck farmers again , all but the biggies agri corps will survive. Shades of Oryx and Crane?

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u/Barabasbanana Nov 26 '24

that market is withering, China is buying into BRICS countries to secure it's supply, American exports have never recovered from the first tariffs

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u/Ok_Bad8531 Nov 27 '24

China already started diversifying its soy supplies to other countries during the 2016-2020 administration.

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u/nottooparticular Nov 26 '24

Every time there has been a trade dispute with Canada, the Canadians took it to the NAFTA tribunal and won. The North American Free Trade Agreement is pretty bulletproof.

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u/adreddit298 Nov 26 '24

If you're a politician who plays by the usual rules. Trump is quite capable of ignoring or pulling out of NAFTA

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u/XKryptix0 Nov 26 '24

It’s even more idiotic as his previous administration is the one that put in place NAFTA 2

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u/jonny_eh Nov 26 '24

The USMCA: https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/united-states-mexico-canada-agreement

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u/NorthernerWuwu Nov 26 '24

We still call it NAFTA up here in Canada. The name change was idiotic.

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u/jonny_eh Nov 26 '24

Ya, it’s basically the same thing. So dumb that he’d torch his “own” treaty.

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u/JohnNDenver Nov 26 '24

More idiotic? Trump? Never...

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u/20hz Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 26 '24

NAFTA does not exist anymore. It is the USMCA trade agreement now

Edit* spelling correction

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u/MotownCatMom Nov 26 '24

Sigh. Repackaged NAFTA.

1

u/20hz Nov 26 '24

Basically yes.

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u/tonytroz Nov 26 '24

By tying it to immigration and drug trafficking they are likely angling for the national security exception in the 2020 deal.

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u/Lucky-Roy Nov 26 '24

And you’d think Canada and Mexico would be like China, ie, smart enough to put tariffs on areas and industries that supported Trump the most.

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u/Mbalz-ez-Hari Nov 26 '24

That’s exactly what we did last time

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u/markyjim Nov 26 '24

Problem is Donny Dipshit isn’t worried about reelection. The 2025 folks have apparently priced this in and the public will just have to suffer through it

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u/TimeBM20 Nov 26 '24

He has already escaped all his legal cases. Mission accomplished.

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u/Fresh-Run2343 Nov 26 '24

Kentucky Bourbon

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u/gelman66 Nov 26 '24

and prepared to do it again, target areas and businesses that supported Trump

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u/DMBFFF Nov 26 '24

As a Canadian, I oppose retaliation.

If Canadians can't sell as much to the US, they will get less American money.

If they get less American money, they will be able to buy fewer American goods and services.

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u/Snoopyshiznit Nov 26 '24

As an American, I definitely oppose the tariffs but what are we to do, really? Once the leaders make the decisions, we kind of just have to deal with it until the next rounds of local/national elections. We just have to make it until then really

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u/DMBFFF Nov 26 '24

Yes.

Tariffs are another form of taxation.

Buy American if the foreign item is too expensive because of tariffs. (I'll continue to buy American if the price and quality are the best.)

but if a Trump supporter complains about higher prices, remind him or her that he/she voted for higher prices: that Trump promised higher taxes (i.e. tariffs) and he gave him/her higher taxes; and that reforms to reverse this are going to be harder because his/her candidate of choice, Trump, will make it harder.

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u/Snoopyshiznit Nov 26 '24

Oh yeah, I’m well prepared to tell certain people “well this is apparently what you wanted, why are you upset?”

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u/YossarianGolgi Nov 26 '24

Hence, this subdeddit.

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u/Lucky-Roy Nov 26 '24

70 odd million of your compatriots made the decision for you. Same goes for your upcoming measles, small pox, monkey pox et al epidemics. Don’t be surprised when civilised countries worldwide that still follow the rule of law start implementing travel bans to and from the US.

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u/Snoopyshiznit Nov 26 '24

And honestly, I don’t blame em. I just want people to realize what’s fact vs. fiction, see what’s happening in front of them slowly but surely. Hope is all a lot of us have atm

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '24

[deleted]

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u/DMBFFF Nov 26 '24

Trudeau imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs and hasn't reached out to Mexico. I doubt most Canadians could name 3 Mexican states from memory in 5 minutes.

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u/Service_Equal Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 26 '24

Canada also has the most fresh water in the world and a man a lot smarter than me once taught me, always keep them good friends bc of that sticky water issue we will all run into in the future….amongst what everyone else said.

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u/tonytroz Nov 26 '24

The US has more fresh water reservoirs than Canada which is 4th in the world. Canada just has the most lakes.

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u/Service_Equal Nov 26 '24

I stand corrected. I did learn that about 15 years ago so I must have misremembered and I should have looked up prior to stating.

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u/Galadrond Nov 26 '24

They should absolutely respond with tariffs that cripple Trump voters.

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u/fudge_friend Nov 26 '24

This is exactly what happened last time! I’m Canadian, American products from red states had a retaliatory tariff slapped on them. For example, Jack Daniels.

Personally I was buying something called French’s Ketchup instead of Heinz, because it’s made in Canada.

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u/DJBitterbarn Nov 26 '24

As long as Canada doesn't elect PP who will bend over backwards to give TFG anything he wants.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '24

Cool. I have money. Let these idiots burn.

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u/Alexandratta Nov 26 '24

One of Canada's key exports is oil, so.. yeah that's gonna be fun.

Trump can "Drill Baby Drill" all he wants but the US, currently, has too big an appetite for oil to satiate.

Canada, on a conservative metric, provides the US with 52% of it's Oil.