r/Eugene • u/laffnlemming • Jun 22 '23
KVAL: Up to 1000 homes to be built along Eugene's riverfront News
https://kval.com/news/local/up-to-1000-homes-to-be-built-along-eugenes-riverfrontI'm curious what folks think of this plan.
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u/SteveBartmanIncident Jun 22 '23
I'm curious how underground parking will work when the water table is like five feet down.
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u/TheMaskedTerror9 Jun 22 '23
this town was really lacking in upscale apartments. You know who really needs some housing around here? People who can afford $1500 to $3000 per month for a 1 bedroom. That's what we need more of.
Christ this is disgusting. You all thought you were getting priced out before? Well get ready cause here it comes.
We're looking at around 730 apartments here with a whole 75 of them "affordable". Why, that's almost 10%. I mean, only 10% of the local population needs housing that isn't upscale, right?
Anyway, the only consolation in this entire garbage pile is that the ground surrounding the old steam plant is some of the most polluted, toxic ground in the entire city. If you walked near there within the last two years, you probably smelled their attempts to mitigate it. The city has already spent a pretty penny trying to remove tainted soil and shore up the river so the bank stops eroding poison into the river. Of course, that's probably the intended site for the 10% affordable housing.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
Christ this is disgusting.
That was close to my reaction for that prime river area.
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u/Dennygreen Jun 22 '23
don't worry. the houses will trickle down
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Jun 23 '23
Soon enough people are going to shove a middle finger in the faces of all these developers. If I get priced out, I'm building my shack in the 5th street parking lot.
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u/headstar101 Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Oh goodie, more slapped together, soulless dwellings at market rate that no one can afford.
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u/Ichthius Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
This will take pressure off the housing markets. If someone can afford these prices do you want to compete against them for a 2 bedroom house?
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u/learnfromhistory2 Jun 22 '23
property seldom works like that. we aren’t talking usual laws of economics and commodification. your theory of taking pressure off the housing market is no good when you consider that people from outside of eugene may move into riverfront luxury apartments. that takes no pressure off housing markets
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u/psychosublimity Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 23 '23
It has been proven time and time again that increasing the supply of market rate housing decreases a region's median rent prices, thus helping lower and middle class folks in the long run.
If you're not willing to increase new housing supply, what is your feasible solution to the housing crisis that can alleviate burdens? Genuinely curious because I hear pushback that building new dense housing hurts the community, but hear no solutions being offered in return.
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u/Ichthius Jun 22 '23
So let’s not build them and see if things get better?
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u/learnfromhistory2 Jun 22 '23
not saying to not build them, but i’m not willing to paint market rate luxury apartments as alleviating pressures to the housing crisis
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u/junafish Jun 22 '23
The riverfront should all, always, be public land for the public good.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I too am a huge fan of Tom McCall.
He saved the coast. He is my third favorite Republican.
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u/Ketaskooter Jun 22 '23
Its a great plan, will be a good addition to the core of Eugene.
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u/CitizenCue Jun 22 '23
Thank you. Everyone complaining about this has no idea how economics works and is blind to the fact that Eugene has one of the most underutilized waterfronts in the country.
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u/mustyclam Jun 22 '23
This is so good for the city. Sucks that it's expensive but so least there will be some affordable units. This city desperately needs more density and life/things to do in the downtown area. This should help
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Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Nothing affordable will come from this
The city of Eugene is planning to retain ownership of one of the lots for affordable housing.
“It’s going to be at least 75 units and it will be affordable for households earning up to 60% of area, median income,” said Development Programs Manager for the City of Eugene Amanda D’souza. “Most income, qualified affordable housing projects, require some sort of subsidy to make them pencil, so the city is in the process of determining how much to allocate.”
You can’t get a trailer at the promised price. This is a lie.
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u/mustyclam Jun 22 '23
If the median income is so low, and it's affordable for people earning less than the median income, how are those not affordable units?
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u/StellerDay Jun 22 '23
Our income for three people is $4000 a month. Our apartment is $1475 plus all utilities. By the formula we cannot afford where we live but there is NOT a cheaper 2 bedroom anywhere. The landlord overlooked the 3x requirement or we would have been fucked and probably living in a motel paying $3000 a month. We don't qualify for any help or Section 8.
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Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
If they’re anticipating such a low return on investment, why would they build?
It’s a SCAM. Some developers donated to the right campaigns.
By the time they’re ready to occupy, they won’t have low-income restrictions on the rents.
They don’t put poor people on expensive properties (river side) at the cost of millions in profit.
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u/mustyclam Jun 22 '23
They're not. The city will make it worth their while to build these units by incentivizing them. That's the thing.
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Jun 22 '23
Then the developers will incentivize the government to undo the restrictions with a promise of future crap apartments on cheaper land and campaign donations.
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u/mustyclam Jun 22 '23
restrictions on what, exactly?
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Jun 22 '23
Income
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u/mustyclam Jun 22 '23
If the city incentivizs them to build a certain number of affordable units, then the affordable units will be subject to income requirements. That's the agreement. Now, the developer might leverage this to pass the plans for buildings they desire most to build, but the agreement in the price and income reqs of the affordable units will stand. This type of thing happens all the time between developers and the city. now, are the other luxury units maybe too expensive to be palatable for most people? Perhaps. But inform yourself before you talk.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I hope they're not cheaply built like these others on Willamette and elsewhere.
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Jun 22 '23
They will be. If the city was investing in building beautiful, enduring buildings with a design that blends into the riverfront, 8d be all for it. Instead they are ruining the last little stretches of river through the city with soulless boxes.
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
All those are designed student housing complexes, built by student housing companies.
The Eugene Riverfront is being built by the firm who developed the South Waterfront in Portland (the one that the OHSU tram drops people off at). These are going to look much better.
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u/pirawalla22 Jun 22 '23
This is an excellent example of why it is a really bad idea to encourage or allow shitty, low quality construction of large-scale housing developments. It turns everybody off the very idea of more large-scale housing developments, because people's natural knee-jerk reaction is "oh great, it will be just like 13th&Olive"
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
100% agree. 13th and Olive is a huge fucking blight on the Downtown core and has poised people to dense housing.
It should also be noted that 13th and Olive is especially unique in how shitty it is, even compared to other student housing complexes. Just a huge pile of shit.
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u/pioniere Jun 22 '23
Well that should pretty much destroy what’s left of the natural river.
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Jun 22 '23
Care for the environment used to be THE defining trait of Oregon and of Eugene. That is no longer the case. People from other states have moved here and"its so much greener than where we're from." They don't see how degraded the natural areas have become over the past few decades, and they don't care.
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Jun 23 '23
Significant destruction has occurred in just a few years. Obvious to anyone that enjoys nature here. Really shameful.
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Jun 23 '23
Agreed. And the idea that Eugene should continue to grow and expand to accommodate everyone who wants to live here will destroy it. Then people will say, "This place sucks, it's unlivable. I'm moving to Idaho/Utah/Alaska, where it's small-town and there is some nature around."
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
Nevermind that the city and the developers had to remove and clean metric fuck tons of contaminated soil from the industrial waste deposited at the turn of the century…. But yeah now the river is destroyed 🙄
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u/FinTech-Bro Jun 22 '23
I’m happy more housing is coming to the riverfront area. We need it. I’m disappointed that this is turning into all apartments. The original vision had row housing/town homes and “restaurant row”.
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u/MrEntropy44 Jun 22 '23
we desperately need multi-unit housing. America's obsession with single family homes is one of many things driving the housing crisis.
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u/El_Bistro Jun 22 '23
I thought the steam plant was going to be all commercial and there’d be some commercial spaces interspersed. I also think that the city wants to keep 5th street the main commercial hub.
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
Steam Plant is a ways off with how much work is needed
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u/RottenSpinach1 Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 25 '23
It would be cheaper to tear it down and put an "aged" facsimile in its place.
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u/duck7001 Jun 23 '23
Whats the fun in that?
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u/RottenSpinach1 Jun 23 '23
You mean the fun trying to rehab a POS?
"Hey, this plaque says the building used to be a steam plant."
"What's a steam plant?"
"Dunno. Where's the Starbucks?"
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u/henrychinaskiii Jun 22 '23
My main concern is that they are only building rentals units. Eugene needs less rentals and more homes available to own. Whether it's condos, lofts, townhomes, or full houses Eugene needs more homes people can actually afford to own and provide long term equity to its residents. Enough of allowing someone outside Eugene to make profits on the fact that their is no other option but for residents to give someone else their money. All this does is provide someone with wealth, more wealth.
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u/itshorriblebeer Jun 22 '23
It really needs more rental units. I had the opportunity to do both here and as expensive as buying a home is - rental prices are just ridiculous and a horrible value here.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
The article mentions 130 "apartment homes". Those could be condos?
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u/henrychinaskiii Jun 23 '23
Apartment still means an apartment that you are renting. I wouldn't call any of these homes.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 23 '23
"Apartment home" can be a definition of a type of condominium. If this is a purchase-type property, $1900 could be a steal.
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u/henrychinaskiii Jun 23 '23
I've never heard that as a definition before. I agree it will be a great location to live.
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u/warrenfgerald Jun 22 '23
I am OK with these plans as long as there are significant setbacks and lots of green space for pedestrians, cyclists, trees, wildlife and mitigation of the urban heat island effect.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
So, you are describing adequate or better planning.
Now, when I moved to the area, downtown Eugene was a planned pedestrian mall, so please forgive me if I'm skeptical about city planning processes around here.
Edit: I don't want the riverfront to be lost forever to some half-assed plan.
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Jun 23 '23
Spoiler: nope.
The riverfront, once developed, will be gone forever. There will be no getting it back to the way it was.
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Jun 23 '23
People don't appreciate natural areas. Are they all from large cities, or what? Even at Mt Pisgah arboretum they have put up signs every 10 ft, I swear. "This is a tree." "This is a wildflower." "This path has a name." It's like walking downtown now. And the Buford Park trailhead-- did you really need to put up Pedestrians Crossing signs and paint the road for people to see where to walk? It's a type of pollution. The fields, wetlands, forests cut down. More new houses going up in the forested land west of the Willow Creek complex. I don't know why that's called progress.
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u/warrenfgerald Jun 23 '23
Its not like that area is an ecological utopia. Its pretty trashy at the moment.
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u/KiwiCatPNW Jun 22 '23
we need like 10K new homes
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u/arcanestudio Jun 22 '23
The highest need exists for people at the very lowest income level - not luxury, not really mid-, and at the very lowest level that housing has to be subsidized.
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
Like Ketanji Court and the two other Homes for Good projects that just opened up in downtown in the last year? Two things can happen simultaneously.
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
God damn y'all just love to complain about anything don't you?
Yeah your right, this was better served as a homeless camp and toxic dumping site that it has been for the last 100 years. (/s)
There are expected to be an additional 15k residents in the Eugene area in the decade. We can either:
- Build new housing to take that pressure off the market
- Let the population growth increase housing costs
- Bulldoze wetlands in West Eugene and extend the UGB
Its housing and we need housing.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I'm not complaining.
I'm asking questions and poorly facilitating a conversation for free.
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u/Lamadian Jun 22 '23
God damn y'all just love to complain about anything don't you?
This is r/Eugene
People here will complain about literally anything. Positive, negative, neutral. Doesn't matter.
Thankfully this is a microcosm of Eugene and most locals want to see the town grow and prosper.
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u/BabyGoatling Jun 22 '23
Great for rich people i guess.. would prefer something for everyone to enjoy like more restaurants, cafes or something
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u/SmokeyUnicycle Jun 22 '23
ITT: people who don't understand that more housing is good
We're in this insane housing market because we haven't been building enough
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u/educationaldirt285 Jun 22 '23
The more housing the better, imo. I probably won’t be able to afford these, but maybe it’ll help ease housing costs overall.
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u/Literature_Defiant Jun 22 '23
I wonder which rich asshole gonna be able to afford this. I’ve loved here 32 years and this city is gentrifying the absolute shit out of everything possible. Used to pay $700/month for a 1400 sq ft town house that’s now $1500/month
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u/MarcusElden Jun 22 '23
The gentrification will be complete
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I wrote a big thing and it glitched and wouldn't commit. Good thing that I saved a copy.
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u/MarcusElden Jun 22 '23
What
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
RIF glitched my original reply.
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u/MarcusElden Jun 22 '23
Wait but you saved a copy but you still haven’t posted it? Brother got me curious now
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
There is a fallacy at work. I can't retype it now nor paste the image, but I said that neither Jerry Garcia nor Ruth Bascom would approve, among other things. Then, I went on.
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u/MarcusElden Jun 22 '23
These riverside homes will just be bait for the Cali border hoppers while pricing out the people who grew up here and work at $30,000-$40,000 jobs. It will force people to move. That’s what I’m trying to say
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
Or, from elsewhere. Probably international.
On another comment chain I asked essentially what are the people that are projected to move here expecting to do here?
If it is spending a fuckton of money over time to adequately pay for a metric fuckton of well-managed jobs to support that riverfront section as it connects to campus and downtown, I'd like to know that now.
Or, are they fueling land expansion and development and taking the cherry on top, too.
Who knows?
Edit: it was something like that but not exactly. VR Inn got arsoned. People want to eat on a riverwalk. Northbank is all that's left. The sewage plant is just downriver a ways. Where else are they going to put it?
Why can't we be like Austin?/s
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u/MarcusElden Jun 22 '23
All I know is that we’re all going to be priced out of our own homes in a few years and be forced to move to Fuckhole, WA or something.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
The issue is devaluing what we have almost unspoiled now, for the short term grasp of prosperity in development.
Don't fuck it up. That's easy to say.
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u/itshorriblebeer Jun 22 '23
I heard something saying that the media rent is higher than the median mortgage in Eugene. This will help.
I only weep for the blackberries.
If you want to increase volume, reduce prices, increase tax base for services - this is how you do it. Build smarter.
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Jun 22 '23
Will this help make older housing/rentals cheaper? Or less competitive? I don’t make very much money at all and the last few times I’ve moved it was difficult to find affordable housing and without roommates I don’t come close to affording even a studio.
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u/Anon_Arsonist Jun 22 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
The best data available on how new housing affects the price paid in the market is that, at the very least, it causes rents/sale prices in the immediate area to rise slower. At a mass scale, and if it's legally allowed to be built dense, this can sometimes even result in lower prices, but that is not a given. Housing also takes time to build, which means the impact on the market is often delayed.
The effect of newbuild housing on market affordability, no matter the target demographic, is near-universally positive in one way or another. This is mostly due to the fact that wealthier renters/buyers have a tendency to simply outbid less well-off renters/buyers when there aren't enough homes built at the higher end (this is called the Filtering Effect, and it's why housing shortages contribute heavily to homelessness).
There's a few studies of home development in NYC which are commonly cited, but I find that recent studies of the effects of upzoning in New Zealand to be both more visible and more relevant, because its effects are both broad and recent.
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u/Anon_Arsonist Jun 22 '23
The project should be bigger and be built faster. That's my take. Eugene has one of the most egregious multifamily housing shortages in the state and needs more units of all kinds to be affordable.
It is good that the city is holding one lot in reserve for affordable units, although I'm not entirely clear on what that means.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
If that's what's needed, do I you think this project will help solve that?
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u/Anon_Arsonist Jun 23 '23
Well, I like that it isn't a suburban subdivision on the edge of town or in Springfield. Multifamily should help the city become more efficient with its tax dollars for the services it uses long-term. The large number of units included close-in to downtown, where people/services want to be, should help balance the market a bit and help act as a release for demand, in addition to being easier to serve by transit. We'll see how much it actually tempers price increases, but as a general rule for affordability, it's better to have more multifamily than less.
I also think it's good for the livability of residents that it's on the waterfront. I'm appreciative that there will be a "standalone retail opportunity" included, although I'm not sure exactly what that means. Shops of some sort right in where the residents live should help cut down on car traffic generation, and also should make the wider neighborhood more livable. It's already a walkable area, so more units being built there seems to make sense to me.
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u/duck7001 Jun 22 '23
The anti-progress "Progressives" are really out in full force today.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
So-called Conservatives don't conserve jack shit for anyone but themselves, these days.
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Jun 22 '23
I doubt any of these apartments will be affordable enough for the locals to rent, but instead these buildings are probably marketed towards people coming in from out of state with good financials. Wack
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
That's what I'm asking about.
What is the demand side of the graph that says these plan makes sense?
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u/Dan_D_Lyin Jun 22 '23
Building directly in the flood plain seems like a great idea. What could go wrong?
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
You build a huge platform over the riverbank with immense pilings? What could go wrong?
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u/skeuomorphism Jun 23 '23
The 2022 FEMA flood map has most of the area under development in the 500 year floodplain, but not the 100 year floodplain.
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u/WhosThatGirl2U Jun 22 '23
1900 for a one bedroom is ridiculous. I do like the idea of more housing being available though.
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u/stuckonearth4ever Jun 22 '23
Two sides to this coin. A lot of people are not buying houses so if I'm in the business of building homes, not houses, what am I more likely to get renters or buyers?
I find people with the money to buy a home, first time buyers, are not because the interest rates and prices aren't great. While I have some who are looking to just get a decent place to live. Yet I see there is a complex being built in front of hynix and while I do see some units already moved in some completed units are still vacant
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u/craders Jun 22 '23
Some units will have a great view. Others will be staring at Coburg road bridge.
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u/MaraudersWereFramed Jun 23 '23
The evil corporations are building housing that we demanded. Down with the evil corporations.
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u/ohdean2 Jun 23 '23
Its not exactly making use of the land for the community, it's so fat cats can get fatter
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u/Big_Ad5850 Oct 19 '24
where are nice older homes (30s, 40s) to rent in eugene?
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u/laffnlemming Oct 19 '24
First off, KVAL is not local.
Nice older homes? I'm not sure, between mold and old lead paint.
I really don't know, but I suspicion that there are not any to be had in the volume that we need for clean and private housing, no matter how small.
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u/4ntisocial420 Jun 22 '23
So their solution to the homeless epidemic is to build high-end river front apartments that will be far too expensive for ANYONE living on the street to afford.
Meanwhile
Average yearly pay increase 2%-5%
Yearly increase in rent 14.3%
You don't make 3x the rent = automatic disqualification.
The people in power want to create more homeless people. More homeless people = more need for government to be given more power and money to "fix" the problem they are creating.
Officials in California make six figure incomes to "fix" homelessness, and the number of homeless people on the street goes up every year.
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u/pirawalla22 Jun 22 '23
For a variety of reasons, it is practically impossible to build new housing and price it "affordably" unless there are tremendous subsidies and tax breaks, either for the developer or for incoming tenants.
All those out-of-town developers are, believe it or not, taking a big risk because the only way they actually make money is when they sell the building some years down the line. Because in order to profit in the short term, rent would need to be like $4-5K per month per small unit. I, too, am offended by units at the Gordon going for prices like that, but if those units were priced at under $2K, the project would literally not have been financially viable. And if its not financially viable, private builders won't do it.
It is harder than many people think to "get rich" developing housing that is not at the very top end. These developers aren't pricing units at $3-4K because they want a huge profit, they are pricing them at $3-4K because if they don't, the projects literally do not pencil out.
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Jun 22 '23
Supply and demand
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u/fagenthegreen Jun 22 '23
Crisis profiteering from real estate speculators seeking outside investment on a project that will probably never happen.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
Where is the demand for this price point?
I know some marketing. 😐
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Jun 22 '23
The price is based on supply and demand.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
Where is the demand point here?
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Jun 22 '23
Lots of people moving to Oregon.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
To Eugene?
To do what?
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u/pirawalla22 Jun 22 '23
What is the difference? Honest question. Are you just curious? I am always confused by all this sputtering WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE????? stuff. This is a desirable place to live. It shouldn't be such a mystery. There are, in fact, jobs here.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
It's because I want to see the demand curve for the economic project that permanently destroys, alters, and shores up local county riverbank.
I'd also like to know what The Army Corp of Engineers assessment would be. Have they weighed in?
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u/IrishWilly Jun 22 '23
Got some really strong NIMBY energy going here. Anything commissioned by the city government usually has their research available if you look. They are reclaiming an area that is already destroyed, not going out into some pristine forest and clearcutting everything.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I'm saying that short term thinking is stupid.
And, I'm saying what is the demand curve for these units? Who will fill them?
What are you saying, again?
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u/pirawalla22 Jun 22 '23
The riverbank is still there. The paths aren't going anywhere. Do people think this is permanently cutting off access to the riverfront? All the construction is on what used to be a gigantic piece of already-cleared land that has been put to a variety of industrial uses over many decades. You could argue that EWEB already "destroyed" this riverbank when they built all their own shit decades ago.
As I said to someone else, it would be lovely if somebody wanted to donate millions and millions of dollars to restore the area and turn this entire parcel into some kind of park, but 1,000 units of housing next to downtown and existing infrastructure works for me as a plan B.
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u/TheMaskedTerror9 Jun 22 '23
the issue is that people who have lived here for generations cannot afford to live here anymore.
it makes people wonder why they can no longer live in their own home. which then leads them to wonder who might be responsible for the fact that they cannot afford to live in the home they were raised in. I raised a family here, my children struggle to find affordable housing.
What's the difference? Perhaps concepts such as gentrification are new to you. look it up
Clearly, you are not from here
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Jun 22 '23
To live in the most beautiful state but also avoid Portland
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
To work in a restaurant as a server that can't afford an apartment there?
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Jun 22 '23
i work remotely from portland in engineering. i design systems for multifamily construction lol
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Jun 22 '23
Something tells me these won’t be considered “affordable housing”.
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u/laffnlemming Jun 22 '23
I agree. I have that same hunch.
Who can afford that? Where will they work?
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u/jwaters1978 Jun 22 '23
This is exactly what Eugene, a city with a median personal income of around $30k needs: $1900/mo 1bd apartments. /sarcasm