r/Eugene • u/NestorsBookClub • Feb 05 '23
Apparently Charlie Kirk and his band of baby fascists are coming to town next week Activism
Update: They’re meeting on Tuesday Feb 7th 6-8pm at Lillis 112
https://twitter.com/evara161/status/1621874949160898562?s=46&t=FXXNrrTk8Sl1XyuVEidmyw
Does anyone know where? It’s through the TPUSA UofO Chapter.
They tried to come in 2021, and we managed to send them to Cresswell.
45
u/farmer_of_hair Feb 05 '23
Where’s the poster that was trying to assemble a brass instrument posse?
27
u/MrsBroosevelt Feb 05 '23
Hey OP! Thank you so much for sharing! Wondering if folks have ideas on the best way to handle this. I'm wondering if anyone has insight on who to contact at the university?
Its being held in the College of Business, will call them but am wondering if there's another/better office to call?
35
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 05 '23
No worries. They have a Diversity Committee, always worth bothering the Dean too.
Centrally, there’s a Diversity and Inclusion Dept, the President’s Office, and if you’re alumni, call the Advancement Office.
Thank you for caring
26
u/MrsBroosevelt Feb 05 '23
Contacted them all and spread the word through my local networks. Thank YOU for caring!! Nobody I've spoken to had any idea this was happening. Eugene already has a really bad Nazi problem, don't need anymore facists here please and thank you lol
10
12
-3
u/This_Prior_2642 Feb 06 '23
The intellectual laziness is astounding in this thread. Name calling and attempting to cause fear is the best anyone can do it seems.
1
3
u/CoreyTheGeek Feb 06 '23
Contacting the media is always a good route "U of O hosting fascist group" isn't a headline they probably want to see
-11
u/Aesir_Auditor Feb 05 '23
Do not bother the business school. Lillis is one of the few buildings that actually let's students rent out the space for clubs. It'd really suck for students if they stopped doing that because they got harassed.
3
u/BabyYoduhh Feb 06 '23
Lol because college age students couldn’t possibly find another place to spend together.
0
u/Aesir_Auditor Feb 06 '23
Per the universities financial rules, clubs abilities to spend on outside venues are extremely limited. So if the econ club wants to meet, it pretty much has to be on campus, or completely out of the students pocket with no opportunity for reimbursement
8
Feb 05 '23
Finally. We might get an answer to “what is a women?”
-12
Feb 05 '23
Woman*
9
0
Feb 05 '23
Oops yup. Woman. Typo. It happens. But on Reddit a typo makes you equivalent to a animal abuser or something alike.
7
u/edselford Feb 05 '23
I'd also like to know what hotel he stays at and where he eats.
15
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 05 '23
Sadly looks like Chazza won’t be with them. Couldn’t possibly go anywhere where he might face resistance 🙄
-5
u/NorincoKing Feb 06 '23
It's two black men you are actively trying to silence.
6
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 06 '23
What does that have to do with anything? No one is angry about their skin color. It's their hateful politics and anti-LGBTQ bigotry that's the problem.
4
u/505ismagic Feb 06 '23
Charlie Kirk is a business, and I'm sure he'd pay good money to be "Banned In Eugene!, Barred from University of Oregon!"
I'd rather see his audience face questions like "Why should I care if some guy wants to dress in womens clothes and read books to kids?"
More persuasion comes from reassurance than loud argument. I've seen enormous amounts of social change in my life, and the reality is its fine. Things unimaginable when I was in highschool have changed, and life just goes on. (My high school history teacher to my almost all white class: "Ok, so you think racial discrimination is mostly behind us. Now imagine a black president." His point was it was not yet imaginable. When it happened many years later, it brought tears to my eyes.)
My advice is play the long game, figure out what actually moves people over time. Try to speak their language, not yours.
2
3
Feb 05 '23
Just wrote the dean asking him to uphold the College of Business’s values by putting a top to these fascists asap.
2
2
u/probably-theasshole Feb 05 '23
Last time they tried to have something like this here they got pushed out to Creswell.
3
u/etherbunnies The mum of /r/eugene...also a dude. Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
I always wonder if Charlie Kirk's financial backers know of his outspoken support of BLM and drag queen story hour. I wonder if they'd keep sending him to college campuses if they knew he's now supporting racial financial reparations.
Maybe if we brought it up on facebook.
edit: That brought some downvotes. But let me leave you with this. "For Americans, the hardest part of paying reparations would not be the outlay of money. It would be acknowledging that their most cherished myth was not real." -- Charlie Kirk.
3
u/Law_of_Attraction_75 Feb 05 '23
Great, thank you for the info!
-16
u/duck7001 Feb 05 '23
Like Charlie Kirk isnt a staple of a 48 year old white womans facebook timeline
4
1
2
3
u/Eugenonymous Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
You have any verifiable source on that?
lol...what kind of moron downvotes a request for verification on a claim? OP was kind enough to update the post with a twitter link after I asked, so...at least they understood the question.
15
9
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 05 '23
Yep, though just that they’re apparently coming, hence the request of anyone has any more info.
1
u/roeder84 Feb 08 '23
The fascist of the future will come in as anti fascist when the anti fascist people don’t get there way they cancel try to ruin peoples live harass and attack anyone that doesn’t agree with there world view
3
u/derivative_of_life Feb 05 '23
This fucking thread, istg. Listen: America went 60 whole years without a mainstream antifascist movement. And yet somehow, through some miracle, fascists never once seized power or even gained any noticeable popularity. Calling yourself an antifascist and tactics like deplatforming etc only became popular around 2013-2014. So at that point, we should have been super safe from fascists, right? And yet literally the very next year, a proto-fascist movement suddenly exploded onto the scene and got their leader elected. And it's done nothing but gain steam since then, despite your rhetoric and your tactics growing ever more hard-line. The evidence could not be more clear: your tactics do not work. Deplatforming does not work.
This is the truth. When material conditions do not allow fascism, you can let loonies shout on their street corners as much as they want and no one will pay attention. When material conditions do allow fascism, no amount of deplatforming or protests will be able to stop it from spreading.
You seem to be assuming that there are a bunch of people just sitting around waiting to become fascists, and the only reason why they haven't is because someone like Charlie Kirk hasn't come along to tell them about it yet. In fact, people are fully capable of coming up with the general principles of fascism all on their own. It goes something like this: "I have lots of problems. Things kind of suck right now, and they're getting worse. Who should I blame for this?" Any answer to that question other than the correct one of "the capitalists" inevitably leads to fascism.
Literally the only way to stop fascism is to give people the correct answer to that question. You need to be building class solidarity, and explaining to people that as fellow workers, our similarities are way more important that our differences. You need to stop instantly assuming everyone who disagrees even slightly with you is on the other side, because guess what? If you say it enough times, they might just start believing you. See: Literally this entire fucking thread.
Also, of all the stupid shit that's happened over the past ten years, I think the absolute number one stupidest thing might be the idea that free speech leads to fascism.
9
u/Bluegoats21 Feb 06 '23
To say the proto fascist movement came as result of Antifascist activity in 2013 ignores the the fact that Trumps rhetoric has a long history of similar speech in America and the links between proto fascism and the tea party of the early 2010s. The anti immigrant speeches of trump is something I have heard since the early 2000s. Arguably the anti immigrant arguments were more explicitly racist in the 2000s such as “speak English”. You can also track the start of popular proto fascists to the mid 2000s such as Steven Crowder, Matt Walsh, even Donald Trump. They all gained popularity railing against Obama, the most middle of the road president. Trump specifically gained popularity by promoting birtherism. The antifascist movement came out of occupy Wall Street and the housing crisis. It has since grown in popularity with every anti labor, anti lgbtq, and anti immigrant policy. But I would say the real explosion of popularity of the antifascist movement(which it’s not that popular relatively speaking) comes from the mass shootings and police murders.
4
u/derivative_of_life Feb 06 '23
To say the proto fascist movement came as result of Antifascist activity in 2013 ignores the the fact that Trumps rhetoric has a long history of similar speech in America and the links between proto fascism and the tea party of the early 2010s.
I'm not saying it actually caused the rise of Trumpism. I'm just saying it was utterly ineffective at stopping it.
5
u/drewsy888 Feb 06 '23
I totally agree that class solidarity is the way but deplatforming is incredibly effective. It's just basically never done. The right loves to pretend they've been deplatformed and I imagine they will continue pretending that regardless of what the left does. Deplatforming does have a real impact though. Look what happened to Alex Jones' followers after he was kicked off of YouTube. They dropped significantly and more importantly less were being recruited.
I get that feeding into the culture war is pointless but if you can have real impacts keeping fascist propaganda out of our community then I think it fully outweighs the dumbass right wing response (which is probably inevitable regardless of what we do).
It doesn't really matter what the left does. Fascists don't care about reality and they'll just make up whatever works for their propaganda.
3
u/derivative_of_life Feb 06 '23
Counterpoint: Remember Milo Yiannopolous? You probably wouldn't if it weren't for that time students at Berkeley rioted to get his talk canceled. If they'd just let him come and speak, a dozen people probably would have shown up, and everyone would have forgotten about it a week later. Instead, he spent that week in national headlines. Alex Jones is a nutjob and even most people on the right find him distasteful. When he got canceled, no one really wanted to stick their neck out for him. But pretty much every attempt to cancel people who at least appear to be more moderate, more reasonable, or more popular has spectacularly failed, even backfired.
2
u/Bluegoats21 Feb 06 '23
Aww I see.
What I hear you are saying your main point is that the material conditions for fascism have arisen and we need to give people a more desirable outcome than fascism by building class solidarity. You are also saying deplatforming is a waste of resources and time because it doesn’t address the root causes.
I disagree with your view of depltforming. The goal is not get them kicked out of social media, the goal is to say “you are not welcome in my area” and prevent fascists, alt right, racists, ect from grouping together around a common leader. I am less concerned if Charlie Kirk is on Twitter, I am more concerned that he comes to Eugene get the local militias and cops riled up against drag queens or whoever the their target minority of the month is. The fascists and our ally’s need to see us united and protesting when fascist/racist leaders come to town and realized how outnumbered they are.
2
u/derivative_of_life Feb 06 '23
That's a viable strategy if you're concerned about Eugene and only Eugene, because Eugene is overwhelmingly progressive. The problem is, there are plenty of parts of the country where we are that badly outnumbered. You don't need to go to like Kentucky or somewhere, either. Literally just drive an hour in basically any direction and you'll probably find yourself in Trump territory. Ultimately, treating ~50% of the country as the enemy is just not a viable path forwards, unless your goal is actual civil war. If that's not your goal, then at some point communication is going to have to happen, and that means you have to let the other side actually have their say.
3
u/Accomplished_Ad3970 Feb 06 '23
I am disinclined to agree with this perspective but reading your arguments here, I am reconsidering my own perspective and leaning more favorably toward yours. Just thought I’d say so.
2
2
u/BeeBopBazz Feb 06 '23
Turns out, America went 60 whole years without a mainstream fascist movement after we killed millions of them in a short period of time. Weird
1
u/derivative_of_life Feb 06 '23
That is an incredibly dumb comment for any number of reasons, but I'll just focus on this bit: Are you suggesting that the solution to fascism is mass murder of your political opposition?
1
u/BeeBopBazz Feb 06 '23
I’m just pointing out why the causal assumption you’re making is a bad one. The rest is left to the reader.
-1
u/NorincoKing Feb 06 '23
Everyone you don't like is a fascist? lol its just two black men doing a speech. WTF is wrong with you? If anyone is acting like a fascist its you. I am so sick of self righteous SJW's like you making up problems that don't exist because you're so bored with you miserable life with you're toxic liberal friends
2
u/derivative_of_life Feb 06 '23
Man, I have no idea what you think I'm saying, but it's definitely not what I'm actually saying.
1
Feb 06 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/RecreationalSprdshts Feb 06 '23
Nah, just don't like Nazis, hun
-3
1
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 06 '23
I have LGBTQ family members. This fascist asshole wants to take away their rights. That's not an "opposing voice," and I see no reason why I shouldn't use my free speech to stand up to him.
0
u/soupcan2000 Feb 06 '23
These are first world problems. The natives get treated way worse than the lgbt community also.
2
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 06 '23
Oh, so it's okay to remove my family members' rights as long as they're not treated as badly as Native Americans? I can't simultaneously be determined to defend their rights and want a brighter future for our native populations?
What the actual fuck, man?
1
u/soupcan2000 Feb 06 '23
Idk what rights you’re talking about besides maybe marriage. This is nothing like the civil rights movement of the 60s. You’re not black.
2
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 06 '23
Idk what rights you’re talking about besides maybe marriage.
- Right to gender-affirming healthcare.
- Right to marriage.
- Right to use the bathroom.
- Right to not be fired for an inborn trait. (People don't choose to be gay or trans.)
That's for starters.
This is nothing like the civil rights movement of the 60s.
Yes it absolutely is.
You’re not black.
That's apropos of nothing. I've seen you pushing this "you can't be pro civil rights if you're not black" position all over this thread, and it strikes me as intentionally divisive.
And don't think I didn't notice that you sidestepped responding to my point about supporting native Americans at the same time. Address that.
0
-2
u/NorincoKing Feb 06 '23
Reddit liberal fascists conspiring to violate the civil rights of two black men who want to speak at a university because they don't think the way you want.
Why am I not surprised?
2
-3
Feb 05 '23
It's amazing that people haven't figured out that they want you to come. They want counter protest and to be cancelled...
It's a win win for them ...
45
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 05 '23
It’s amazing that people still don’t understand that allowing fascists platforms is why we’re still in this mess.
-3
Feb 05 '23
You contribute to it though. You are a far bigger reason these people have platforms at all. They get far more clout and validation from their peers and are able to play the martyr when people call for de platforming.
It's literally a strategy taken straight out of history.
They have no plans to speak to their crowd in a liberal college city. Their plan is to manipulate people like you and check a box for them and to shape a false narrative that you are the violent fascist and they are just the people who want peace and the greater good for America.
Everytime people show up to "fight" they win. More people, more exposure and more influence. Not to mention the contributions to "protest fatigue"... That motivates voters to vote against you.
12
Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
-4
Feb 06 '23
They need the controversy ... They literally use it ...constantly ...
Deplatforming rarely works ... If ever. I don't know why you think that. Most people that get deplatformed end up with more followers later.
4
Feb 06 '23 edited Jul 01 '23
[deleted]
1
Feb 06 '23
You are referencing the controversy like it's limited to right wing media. They need the controversy to radicalize people local and abroad.
That is something that people in this thread seem to be confused about.
Again... They are playing the victim and when they are attacked / harassed etc people (mostly kids who are really impressionable ) and people see that they are making rather "harmless" comments which is a strategy on their part it starts the indoctrination process.
This is not a new concept ...it's well known recruitment strategy.
Localized outrage plays into victimhood mentality and drums of support. If some dumb kid hears that some right winger was denied access to speak that is going to pique their interest and drive that kid to that speaker like a moth to a flame.
5
u/drewsy888 Feb 06 '23
Lol these people are funded by billionaires. They don't need college counter protests to make headlines. Right wing media will make controversy out of literally anything. The left could hide inside and never say a mean thing to these fascists and fox news' content wouldn't even change.
When you refuse to fight back you are playing into their game. They do not care about the truth even slightly. They will say or do anything to promote fascism regardless of what you do.
Deplatforming Alex Jones worked. His audience got severely cut and new viewership went way down. People get radicalized when these people are allowed to speak in popular places. They're spewing garbage and have absolutely nothing to add to any discussion. Their only purpose is spreading propaganda.
0
u/1LTLA Feb 05 '23
I know you guys are downvoting him. But he is right. Look at what could have happened if counter protesters showed up at January 6th. They didn’t and their true colors came out. They had no one to scape goat. Why do you think they like Portland so much?
5
u/drewsy888 Feb 06 '23
Well, considering the right wing narrative is that all the people that broke into the capital actually were antifa. I don't think they actually care about the truth. It doesn't matter what the left does, it's going to be spun in whatever way works for right wing fascists.
-4
Feb 05 '23
It's been shown time and time again that "alternative" demonstration is the tool to fight this evil.
If people want to "fight" fascism you simply have a bigger and more positive event. Showing up and fighting them just draws people into their manipulation and you lose because like you said it just falls into their narrative.
The problem is people pulling the strings of oppression know how this works. They know that it is a very instinctual desire to instigate counter protest and people want to show up and counter protest because it fulfills their own sense of self righteousness.
This is not some new idea, pioneers in demonstrations like Dr. King knew this and the frustration for so many people in power that he did not fall victim to their attempts at provocation.
7
u/Hairypotter79 Feb 05 '23
And we've reached the point where the obviously white person references dr king. Ignoring the fact that he was blamed for inciting violence through the use of his peaceful counter protests as well
The day you clowns are as aggressively against modern hitler youth groups like TP usa is the day your both sides rhetoric gets to be taken seriously. Right now you're just the white moderates he excoriates in his letter from a birmingham jail.
0
Feb 06 '23
Again this is the problem. The optics that come out of your comment. The personal attacks etc all lead to people leaning the other way.
You are feeding into it. The opposition wants you to mock "moderates" they want you to call people clowns and you simply don't get it. This kind of nonsense just makes those "moderates" lean the other direction.
This idea that you are either all in on this or that or you are the enemy is something the right really really wants and you are giving it to them.
3
u/Hairypotter79 Feb 06 '23
I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
Oh noeeees...not the moderates!
1
u/Dan_D_Lyin Feb 06 '23
Yes, I agree. They are banking on the college students getting whipped into a frenzy and pulling stunts like massive protests, vandalism, etc that would actually make the news. There would never be a news article about 2 nobodies giving a lecture no one shows up to.
If you want to really hurt these guys, let them hear crickets.
Don't show up. This is a non-event.
0
u/Hairypotter79 Feb 06 '23
Alternately, we can make them go somewhere else, with a smaller media footprint than a major university.
2
u/Takenforganite Feb 05 '23
Can we just quarantine them? Like build a giant tent around them and never let them out?
1
Feb 07 '23
Fascists always talk about Obama camps. Well it's a shame it's not true. How much more great again could America be without the Reich wingers
-5
u/like_a_wet_dog Feb 05 '23
Yep, and then this thing where young people are calling words "violence". Violence implies physical force to everyone else. It's not the same as stopping saying the other f word. We don't call ice "water" or water "steam". Words matter.
It sounds stupid and hysterical, it plays into the audience at home on fox news, WHO ALWAYS VOTE MORE THAN YOUNG PEOPLE.
Old rich people need young people to act out, so the old poor people will still side w/the cops out of fear. Then fascists write the laws to ruin everyone.
Sign up new voters, don't act out.
-2
u/Teland Feb 06 '23
Part of the definition of fascism is the forcible suppression of opposition. So, aren't the people who try to stifle speech kind of fascist? When Charlie comes to town, doesn't he set up a booth and invite conversations?
Seems we throw around the labels of fascist and Nazi too easily these days.
3
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
2
u/Teland Feb 06 '23
What does that even mean? But nice job reporting my comment to the mods over there. You successfully got me banned for a whole 5 minutes before someone reviewed and unbanned me. It's not hard to put people into a box, but you risk being wrong a lot when you do it often. Not everyone fits into the box you try to put them in.
2
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
Sorry to disappoint you but i didn’t report anything.
0
u/Teland Feb 06 '23
I'll take your word for it. The timing was suspect because, no sooner as you linked that older comment, I got the ban notice. It was over a month old. I apologize for placing the blame on you.
-5
1
u/CoreyTheGeek Feb 06 '23
Conversations on a topic worth debating would be one thing, but, as many others have figured out through reading history, there are ideas that have been tried already and don't deserve to get any more consideration because we know the roads they lead to and they're detrimental to society
-3
u/This_Prior_2642 Feb 06 '23
Sometimes I like to use words like “fascist” without knowing what it means too.
-2
-4
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
all the downvotes and group-speak in this thread originate through the prism of blind white supremacy, which is the implicit basis of all major policy, protest, and public debate in this country.
Malcolm X warned about white liberals, highlighting that not only do they “know not what they do”, they “know not what to do”, and will lean on historical know-it-allism to co-opt, sensationalize, and ultimately derail movements, all so they can cling to an outdated sense of where they exist on the societal totem pole
PNW is a fantastic place to study this phenomenon, because of the richness of its historical racism, and all of the people who are silly enough to believe they’ve worked it out of their bodies and souls
6
3
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
This is both entirely irrelevant and utter nonsense.
1
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
it’s not irrelevant at all; you’re a victim of white supremacist blindness, therefore you’re a vehicle for it.
Reactionary nonsense is the mantra of privileged egoists who seek, whether they know it or not and more than anything else, a new master
2
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
Yeah, that first bit is the bit that’s utter nonsense. Booker T Washington has some excellent scholarship on the construct of whiteness you mind find interesting
0
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
I can hear that sounds again
3
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
Is it the “sounds” of you taking pish since yesterday and calling everyone a white supremacist bc they don’t agree with you? Or the sound of you applying a construct of white America onto an immigrant?
2
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
Hey, I said you were a victim of white supremacy, therefore you’ve become a vehicle for it; and this victims-to-vehicles is certainly not something you can exclude yourself from by alluding to the fact that you’re an immigrant
You’ve said and stated more than enough in this thread to confirm that you’ve embraced many constructs of white America, particularly the ones that frame how Americans ought to voice their discontent (in ways that reinforce the power structure)
1
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
Have a good day, there’s literally no way of communicating with you
2
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
I’d also like to offer, if you ever want to actually have a real discussion about this stuff, coffee’s on me.
Im not a “sit back and let the bad guys win” person by any means, but I do have a long history of participating in and organizing movements.
At the end of the day, I think we’ve got different roadmaps to the same desired end
1
u/brwnwzrd Feb 06 '23
Hey, at least I didn’t downvote you into oblivion.
2
u/NestorsBookClub Feb 06 '23
Me either so thanks?
I’ll pass on the coffee. We probably do have shared goals, but I’m not into being called a white supremacist in exchange for a free warm beverage. Have a good one.
→ More replies
-2
-6
-8
Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
9
3
Feb 06 '23
[deleted]
-3
Feb 06 '23
[deleted]
0
0
u/soupcan2000 Feb 06 '23
Remember, Reddit is controlled just like every other social media platform.
-14
u/KiwiCatPNW Feb 05 '23
Found the trump lover
9
Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
-8
u/KiwiCatPNW Feb 05 '23
You're the kind of person to say "I have a black friend, you see I'm not a racist at all, not me"
19
6
-7
u/Wrong-Bench-2530 Feb 06 '23
How about you actual fascists try and have a civil debate with him. You won't because you are chickenshlt actual fascists.
4
4
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 06 '23
Okay, how about I start off.
Me: "So, TPUSA, there are several people in my family who are LGBTQ+. Can you describe what you believe their rights should be?"
TPUSA fascists: [spew garbage about conversion "therapy," and sick, fascist shit about taking their rights away, all couched in religious talking points]
Me: "Okay, debate over. You guys are just fascists."
That was quick.
-19
u/warrenfgerald Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
I wonder if Kirk would be as popular if people on the left side of the political aisle just completely ignored him. For example, if there is a large protest and it makes the news, how many people in our community are going to learn who Kirk is merely because of the ruckus that erupted during his event? If I was his PR/marketing manager, I would actually love all of these "lets go protest" movements. This is how I first heard about Charles Murray over a decade ago. He was the guy who would cause quasi-riots on college campuses.
31
u/kescusay Moddish Feb 05 '23
Ignoring fascists doesn't work.
-14
u/warrenfgerald Feb 05 '23
If more people had ignored Donald Trump througout his career, including the corporate press during the 2016 campaign there is no way he would ever have become president.
7
u/OculusOmnividens Feb 05 '23
If more people had ignored Hitler, we'd all be speaking German right now.
Ignoring fascists doesn't work.
-8
u/warrenfgerald Feb 05 '23
You are conflating domestic popularity (Hitler was elected) with diplomacy and foreign affairs. I am not arguing that Kirk should be ignored by the Canadiam PM if he becomes president and advicates for invading Vancouver.
7
3
18
u/MrsBroosevelt Feb 05 '23
Turning a blind eye to facism is not effective. There's a reason Proud Boys almost never hold events in Portland anymore - because every time they do, we run them out of town. There's a shitload of history of anti-facist you're ignoring here. It Did Happen Hear is a wonderful podcast about anti-facist action in Oregon, and the long fight to get Nazi the fuck out of our state. This is a problem we have to rip out by the roots, not ignore and hope it goes away. I know you've got power and have a role to play in creating a more just world, hope you're using it in ways that feel better to you. <3 <3 <3 We need all types, totally okay if you're not the "yell at Nazi" type, but I hope you find your role! We need you! <3
8
u/warrenfgerald Feb 05 '23
Look, I hate Nazi's, racists, etc... as much as the next guy. I am a vegan, environmentalist atheist for crying out loud, but a lot of these demonstrations become recruitment videos for people on the fringe. Maybe a independent construction worker lost their job yesterday and they see a news reel clip of antifa throwing rocks through windows. They might get radicalized right there. If we really believe that progressive ideals like equal rights, fairness, civility, etc... are important I think we should set a better example within our communities and not start fights with every clown that shows up.
5
u/OculusOmnividens Feb 05 '23
a lot of these demonstrations become recruitment videos for people on the fringe.
Yeah, that's right, they do. And your solution is what? Ignore them? Give them a platform that legitimizes their movement? Let them recruit even more at their event?
You can't 'set a better example' with fascism. The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
When it comes to fascism, silence is complicity.
-2
u/warrenfgerald Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
But if you just lived your life on twitter and various Oregon subreddits you would think that Oregon is just teeming with right wing fascists, but its clearly not. Portland politics has been dominated by the left for decades. It feels like we progressives have manufactured this bogeyman as a kind of excuse for why Portland doesn't look like Zurich yet. Maybe we should stop lettting Fox news use footage of our towns to recruit more nuts and look in the mirror and take some responsibility for various problems.
3
-3
u/Hairypotter79 Feb 06 '23
How the fuck would you know transplant? You moved to one of the top 2 most left wing towns in the state. You don't know SHIT about basically everywhere else in this state.
-3
u/MrsBroosevelt Feb 05 '23
Friend, the entire point of this event is to radicalize people into joining the Far Right.
Yes, standing up to the far right might radicalize a few people towards the right. I hear your point and worry about that too sometimes. However, you know what will radicalize even more people? Allowing a well-organized, transphobic and pro-facist organization to recruit our children in schools unchecked. TP USA goes into middle schools, high schools and colleges with the sole purpose of recruiting and radicalizing young people to join the far right. This is where we need to place our worries of "radicalization," not on the people trying to stop these groups.
I was at the protest at Old Nick's in October, where a bunch of these folks came out to harass a child. Have you ever seen actual Nazis in real life? They don't give a fuck about your civility. They have guns, and they are ready to use them. That day, the Far Right had snipers lined up on the butte with their guns pointed at our heads, and could've actually caused some real harm had my friend not found them first. This is who we are organizing against.Protest has a long and effective history. I get that your opinion is otherwise, but that doesn't change the facts. There have been people saying the same thing as you throughout time, and to that Martin Luther King Jr. said "We do not need allies more devoted to order than to justice. I hear a lot of talk these days about our direct action talk alienating former friends. I would rather feel they are bringing to the surface latent prejudices that are already there. If our direct action programs alienate our friends … they never were really our friends.”
If anti-facist action radicalizes people into becoming facists, they weren't really on the side of justice to begin with.
Again, it's okay if this isn't your frontline. Please find yours, we need folks showing up in all places in all ways.
3
u/Glorakoth Feb 05 '23
That day, the Far Right had snipers lined up on the butte with their guns pointed at our heads, and could've actually caused some real harm had my friend not found them first.
LMAO WHAT, why was this not reported anywhere?
0
u/MrsBroosevelt Feb 06 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
I'm not sure, and there are also no arrest records for that date even though I saw a shitload of cops leaving the butte. So fucking stupid. I wouldn't even have known if my friend's friend wasn't the person that discovered them and reported them. I've been trying to get them to find out if they took pictures, I'm sure at least Double Sided Media would publish an article about it.
8
u/duck7001 Feb 05 '23
Conservatives love racism, bigotry, homophobia, misinformation and fascism regardless of how the left reacts.
So I'd venture to say, yes, he would still be popular.
-2
u/Glorakoth Feb 05 '23
Never knew a thing about him before this post. Don't expect people here to use their brains.
-9
u/brwnwzrd Feb 05 '23
He definitely would not be; none of these groups would be, or ever have been, without all the fuel derived from controversy + spectacle
-20
Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
18
u/Son_of_baal Feb 05 '23
Fascists don't deserve a platform of any kind besides the gallows.
→ More replies3
17
6
u/Galaxyman0917 Feb 05 '23
Fascism doesn’t deserve a platform, and any fascist does deserve to be run out of town.
8
Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
6
u/drewsy888 Feb 06 '23
DAE thInK THe rEal faSCiSm iS aNti-faSciSM??
Do you think fascism is whenever someone says mean words or something? I'd love to know your definition of the word.
3
4
u/PuzzleheadedWest0 Feb 05 '23
Nah, running christo nationalists out of town is fine.
→ More replies
82
u/[deleted] Feb 05 '23
Make a bunch of “We <3 Fascism” stickers and plaster them all over any forum that hosts that prick.