r/DoggyDNA • u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 • Nov 11 '24
Meet Jagger. Discussion
I did a DNA test on him but I feel the results were generic : Pitbull and American Stafford. There has to be a few other breeds missing…. Thoughts?
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u/LemonBeagle27 Nov 11 '24
Jagger is way more handsome than this guy, but the vibe is similar. I love your dog!!
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u/hallohi_ Nov 11 '24
Medieval artists had seen Jagger
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u/Rootvegetablelove Nov 11 '24
Time traveler
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u/homes_and_haunts Nov 11 '24
Ha, this is just what I was thinking of - like people think this artist didn’t know what a dog looked like, but it turns out they knew EXACTLY what one dog in particular looks like.
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u/FishingRadiant6566 Nov 11 '24
I scrolled too fast and thought they dropped the puppy pics😭😭😭I see now they don’t exist though
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u/Starlady174 Nov 12 '24
This is the best reaction to one of the best posts I've seen on Reddit. Thank you and OP.
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u/KA3BEE Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
This made me crack up. Thank you. I forgot to mention how adorable OPs dog is. 🐕 💕
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u/pegmatitic Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
You beat me to it! (I love medieval illustrations of animals)
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u/magnolia_unfurling Nov 12 '24
12th bork of woofington. the maid would read me his sonnets before slumber
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u/wha_is_djh Nov 13 '24
I never thought I would see this in this subreddit… about a year ago I took an afternoon to go through a bunch of medieval art and make stickers for my phone so I can send weird ones in my friend group chats. This is my most used one…
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u/Suzarain Nov 11 '24
Wtf I am obsessed with this dog
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u/fradulentsympathy Nov 12 '24
He looks like he drives a Harley and plays Santa in December
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u/FishingRadiant6566 Nov 11 '24
I have literally never in life seen a dog that looks like this omg!😭😭😭You can definitely see the pit in him, but he’s just so unique! I love him!!??!??!
ETA: wait do you have any puppy pics of him??? I would die to see
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 11 '24
Unfortunately I adopted him from a shelter when he was about 4 years old. I wish I had puppy pics too.
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u/biglipsmagoo Nov 12 '24
I guarantee he looked just like a gopher.
He’s part gopher. Embark can’t detect gopher yet.
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 11 '24
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u/Collies_and_Skates Nov 11 '24
Embark is the most reliable test. I’ve heard of the long haired gene being in some pitbulls so it’s possible imo. His face and body structure look pit
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 11 '24
Pits sometimes carry the long fur gene yes but I don't think they have either the curly fur or the furnishings genes, and this dog has both, so something interesting is going on here.
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u/Mystchelle Nov 11 '24
I wonder if he's got poodle or something enough generations ago that it's not detectable by DNA tests anymore, but we can still see the results. My dog has the furnishings gene but none of his breeds typically have it, either
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u/EyelandBaby Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 12 '24
Since you mentioned furnishings: my dog has them, but I’ve never seen them in the breeds in her makeup: 50% Malamute, 25% GSD, 25% Pyr. Yet here she is (wearing gladiator dog headgear). What gives?
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 12 '24
We've seen a couple Pyrs come back as purebred with furnishings, it's possible that's a rare occurrence in the breed (Rottweilers can on very rare occasions be furnished too).
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u/OneAd4516 Nov 12 '24
Your girl looks like a grown version of my boy! Still waiting on our dna test :)
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u/bentleyk9 Nov 11 '24 edited Dec 01 '24
FDfej Ba ZPRvyclHDMkDfe BmEIYvfCLwZA byaDjSlHJmio updatefoo
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u/Tacocat1147 Nov 12 '24
sighs and joins yet another pet sub
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u/Lady_Nimbus Nov 12 '24
I definitely see pit and I came here to say bulldog. Not sure if Staffordshires can have the long coats, but I would guess the test is accurate if so.
He's a handsome griffin. Possibly part luck dragon.
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u/sarahpphire Nov 12 '24
Ha!! Just watched TNS yesterday with my 5 year old granddaughter. It was her first time seeing it. We have a Dane and she said she wanted to trade him in for a luck dragon lol
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u/nodogsallowed23 Nov 12 '24
My part pit part muppet. Pits can def have long hair!
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u/TheLoneliestGhost Nov 12 '24
You weren’t kidding. Very Muppety. What a cool and unique-looking pupper!
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u/HallInternational778 Nov 12 '24
What dog breed is your dog?
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u/nodogsallowed23 Nov 12 '24
She’s a border collie poodle pit! With lab and gsd thrown in. Even some shih tzu! She’s the epitome of a rescue mutt.
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u/hb2400 Nov 12 '24
I love his fur! It’s such a unique look for those breeds. I’m amazed by how cool your dog is.
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u/pinkypipe420 Nov 12 '24
There's gotta be a hidden 4th breed. Do any of these breeds have curly hair? Maybe Jagger has a gene mutation that caused the curl. I love it! He's a one of a kind pupper!
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u/s0ck3y3 Nov 12 '24
I work at a dog rescue and we have had a dog look exactly like yours except for grey, he was a pit mix too, had the long hair.
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u/Complex_Raspberry97 Nov 12 '24
This is the wildest thing I’ve seen. I certainly thought a staff mix, but not completely. With Embark, you can look at the traits too. It would be interesting to see the furnishings trait or coat type gene. I immediately thought a little Brussels griffon, but doubted it.
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u/mommydntplaythtway Nov 12 '24
Does he, by chance, have Cushing's disease? My daughter rides a horse that has a curly stomach and curly fur around his hooves, and he has Cushing's Disease.
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 11 '24
We adopted him in FL. He was transported from Alabama from a kill shelter at 4 years old and we initially were fostering and had to adopt him.
I wish I had puppy pics of him. Let me find the DNA results and share here.
He’s so chill and a lover.
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u/DamnGoodCupOfCoffee2 Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
No DA, no HA, not high energy and a cutie? You won the jackpot
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u/sextoyhelppls Nov 13 '24
What does DA mean here? I read this as no district attorney 😅
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u/DamnGoodCupOfCoffee2 Nov 13 '24
😂 that’s so funny!! Dog aggression and I mistyped my next line should have been no HA human aggression. DA and high energy are breed standard so she got lucky
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u/sophwestern Nov 11 '24
This is the coolest dog I have ever seen He looks like a dog mixed with a mythical creature, so that could explain the missing breeds!
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u/sproutsandnapkins Nov 12 '24
He reminds me of the cowardly lion in the wizard of Oz 😹
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u/sophwestern Nov 12 '24
At this point you could say he’s satan and I’d be like “well I guess I worship the devil now”
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
What test did you get and could you post a picture of the results? In terms of body structure he does look very Pit, but that curly fur is really quite unusual - there's not a lot of breeds that carry that. It looks like he has the combination of the short fur, curly fur, and furnishings genes - short fur, straight fur, and furnishings are dominant, long, curly, and unfurnished recessive. Edit: Well, one copy for curly fur can result in a wavier coat if a dog is long-haired or furnished, I'm not totally sure if he has 1 or two copies of the gene.
As examples Poodles are long/curly/furnished, a Golden is long/straight/unfurnished, something like a wire-haired Jack Russell short/straight/furnished. Furnishings being dominant and long hair/curly hair being recessive are why so many Poodle mixes turn out wirehaired. It's very unusual though to see a dog inherit the curly fur and not long fur genes, since curly fur's rarer than long fur so is less likely to show up in mixes.
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 11 '24
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 11 '24
Hmm okay yep this one's got me stumped. I know some things about dog genetics from being a sub regular but am far from being an expert - wonder if u/journeyofthemudman , u/pablois4, or u/stbargabar have any thoughts? (sorry for the ping) This is a case where I might be curious to see a Wisdom Panel to compare. They can get a little too into the weeds sometimes with the low percentages <5%, but it's possible they might pick up 1 or 2% of a breed that could be contributing the curly fur and furnishings genes here, as Pits don't usually have those (long-haired Pits pop up here once in a while but that's a different gene).
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u/Pablois4 Valued Contributor Nov 11 '24
What's weird here is that he's not following the script for any of the normal coats types.
His muzzle, lower face and neck has long furnishings but above his eyes, forehead and ears there's' no long furnishings. The hair looks a little coarse but it's not long.
I even looked at the enlarged photos to see if OP was pulling a sneaky one and shaved off his eyebrows. (sorry to doubt you OP).
I think he does have the genes for curly furnishings but for some reason it's expressing in some areas and not others.
Jagger is a distinctive and totally unique looking guy.
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 12 '24
His coat is quite particular with so many textures and I promise this is how his hair grows. I’ve trimmed him before but these pics are of him fully grown out.
His forehead is that soft pitty smooth coat, course thick hair around his neck, then curly hair on his hind legs are course but not as thick as his neck and then his legs have the wiry texture.
I checked his ancestry connection on embark unfortunately no one has the wiry or long curly hair.
We’s a hoot and so glad I can share him with the Reddit community. If anyone is in the upstate NY area, Jagger would love to meet new human and fur friends.
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u/lnsybrd Nov 12 '24
Embark used to be pretty responsive (and I assume they still are); I wonder if they'd have any insight into which genes are responsible if you email them.
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u/red-molly Nov 12 '24
Agreed, I was thinking it might be worth contacting Embark to see if they have any insight into the curly fur. Whatever its source, though, it helps make Jagger one of the coolest-looking dogs I've ever seen.
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u/throwaway098764567 Nov 12 '24
maybe send a pic too, he's a crazy looking beast, they might be intrigued enough to puzzle further
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u/journeyofthemudman Nov 12 '24
What breeds do the closest relatives have? They don't need to have the same coat type to inherit enough DNA of the furnished breed to show up on a test.
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u/frustratedcuriosity Nov 12 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
I honestly wouldn't be entirely surprised if it's not the inherited RSPO2 deletion and it's just a defect with the gene. Mostly because of the patchiness. It seems like something in the genetic manual is giving conflicting information lol
Whether the gene isn't being fully expressed or it's being incorrectly expressed is hard to say. I hope OP gets the full breakdown! I'm not sure how embark would handle labeling if it is a defect though.
(Also because that particular mutation isn't found in any of those breeds that I could find!)
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Nov 12 '24
What about mosaicism?
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u/frustratedcuriosity Nov 12 '24
Unlikely. Somatic mosaicism is tricky, but it doesn't really have structure when it comes to location because the cells are just kind of dividing all willy nilly (not really but basically). However, that's why pigment mosaicism (what most people think of) is very asymmetrical and almost nonsensically patchy, unlike Jagger, who is patchy but has structure. Also, if there were some functional issues with the cells to the point where hair growth is affected you would likely see other skin conditions popping up with it, but this appears purely "cosmetic."
Humans actually do have a somatic mosaic mutation that does cause patches of curly hair on the scalp! But it causes some other issues as well.
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u/justUseAnSvm Nov 13 '24
That's what I'm thinking as well.
Some type of mutation. Very rare, but I've looked at thousands of dogs on the internet, and never seen that coat pattern.
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 11 '24
Oh and another thought I had - does he have any close relatives on Embark that have a fluffy breed in the mix (even if it's supermutt)? Sometimes relatives pick up enough of a breed to be distinguishable even if your dog doesn't.
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u/journeyofthemudman Nov 11 '24
Yeah this is a weird one. I think checking the results of close relatives for any furnished breeds would be the next step. Wisdom panel could possibly bring up something but in those 1-5% it's impossible to tell if they're legit or not. Like pablois4 mentioned, the way placement and expression of the furnishings is interesting. Usually the wiry length is on the back, sides, muzzle and eyebrows. The lengthy beard but lack of eyebrows is unusual. I'll have to dig more into it to see what I can find.
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u/Comfortable-Fly5797 Nov 11 '24
Could it be a mutation or other genetic abnormality since it is presenting so oddly?
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u/sprinklerarms Nov 12 '24
It kinda reminds me of that cat why hypertrichosis but I think that might just be because that was also the weirdest looking cat I’ve seen. This dude is now the most unusual dog I’ve seen.
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u/stbargabar Nov 12 '24
There are different variants of furnishings that aren't completely understood yet. We know that there's the regular furnishings variant and a different one that creates minimal furnishings. But some dogs I've seen seem to express mainly on the body and not as much on the face. Then we have this dog expressing in a patchy appearance. It could be a different variant or it could be mosaicism but I wouldn't expect it to be so symmetrical if that were the case. As for where it's coming from, it must be something too far back to detect.
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u/FoundationGlass3046 Nov 11 '24
And that he's not all curly is so weird, how would that work?
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u/Beautiful_Fennel_434 Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
It's an odd distribution pattern of fur across the body for furnishings as well yeah. Furnishings usually creates a ton of fur around the face (eyebrows and beard especially - think a Schnauzer) and wispier fur across the rest of the body, resulting in the kind of coat we see on wire-haired terriers (which usually have the short/straight/furnished gene combination). This dog though has most of the extra fur on the legs plus the typical beard, which is odd.
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u/Meems138 Nov 11 '24
This is the funniest looking dog I’ve ever seen and I mean that in the best way possible
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u/peanutbutterprncess Nov 11 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
50% lorax. 40% bulldog. 10% Wilford Brimley. OMG these results cannot come fast enough. Hopefully he doesn't have diabeetus Edit: I was way off. ...and so was everyone else.
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u/Sand_Maiden Nov 12 '24
I have been reading, hoping someone would identify what I just couldn’t put my finger on. I think it’s Wilford Brimley, or that’s as close as anyone has gotten so far!
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u/reticulatedjig Nov 12 '24
Dude your dog is the reverse of mine. Shaggy boy
Mine is shaggy on the top!
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u/thisisstephanie Nov 12 '24
Awww he reminds me a bit of my boy who is pit/schnauzer/other
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 12 '24
Yes!! I see the resemblance and I think Jagger has a hint of schnauzer in him except his fur is very course and wiry.
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u/holiestcannoly Nov 12 '24
This is one of the weirdest looking dogs I’ve seen, but in a good way! He looks regal
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u/bentleyk9 Nov 11 '24 edited Dec 01 '24
OTuoEHgQUughfnQuokglK FNgIZawkRYQNKaw srorNwT yTgV updatefoo
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u/Aknelka Nov 12 '24
I second this. So fun.
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u/KentuckyMagpie Nov 12 '24
I am thirding that motion! The one I think about all the time was the hairless dog that tested as 100% ACD. Embark even redid that test because it was so wild!
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u/kelcantsi Nov 11 '24
I…have never seen a dog like this in my life lol. I’m shocked. By his looks and his breeds!
Commenting to boost the post so hopefully one of the really knowledgeable dog gene people who sometimes comment on this sub see this!
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u/DifficultSmile7027 Nov 16 '24
I spent the evening sketching Jagger. Here you go! He inspired me. 🥰
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 16 '24
Wowowow. I’m so impressed and this is Jagger’s first ever drawing. Thank you!! 🥰
I’ll do my best to post more fun and silly pics in his IG page. @Jagger_themutt.
Give him a follow. ❤️
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u/Individually_me_9925 Nov 12 '24
Does Jagger have an IG account? Bc I need to follow him!
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 12 '24
Yes! Please follow. @Jagger_themutt
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u/pegmatitic Nov 12 '24
Gave you a follow! I’m literally obsessed with your dog (don’t tell my dog!)
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u/Emelyyca Nov 12 '24
He has to have some type of poodle! I have two dogs, both are staffys , pit bull , poodle mixes!
Here’s my first dog
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u/Ecstatic-Ad-286 Nov 12 '24
What a cutie and Sun marks the spot. ❤️ Your dog has that interesting coat like Jagger. I need to run another dna test to see if his results have changed with a larger dna pool.
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u/Match_Least Nov 12 '24
It’s not quite as intense as Jagger but my first dog was a boxer, English Springer, mutt. She got her furnishings from the Spaniel.
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u/MsMockingbirds Nov 11 '24
This is one of the most uniques dogs I’ve ever seen he’s adorable! For what it’s worth I can definitely see the pit
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u/Difficult-Froyo1192 Nov 11 '24
How do you even get curly fur only in patches like that without long hair? That might be the most unique look I’ve seen here yet. I don’t know a dog at all that causes that. He looks like a real sweetheart though!
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u/mollyclaireh Nov 11 '24
A lot of people say they have surprising results but you ACTUALLY have surprising results.
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u/smallorangepaws Nov 11 '24
Omg this is the cutest and most unusual Pitty ever, im so in love!!! What gorgeous fur ❤️
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u/anarchyarcanine Nov 12 '24
Something from the Dr. Seuss universe, probably
What an interesting dog, the curls don't even go all the way up haha
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u/HermineLovesMilo Nov 12 '24
I can't stop laughing! He reminds me of the he never gets the faces right scene from What We Do in the Shadows. Thank you for sharing this handsome and distinguished boy.
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u/LemonBeagle27 Nov 11 '24
I’ll bet Jagger’s world is a wonderful place! Everyone he meets is smiling and laughing! I cannot get over his awesomeness!!
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u/Jmj108 Nov 11 '24
I’m sorry I don’t have a guess, but Jagger is beautiful and looks like he is going to grow up to be the Santa Claus for dogs
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u/Tailsofadogwalker Nov 12 '24
Most unique dog I’ve ever seen. Consider sending pictures to Ripley’s Believe it or not to make him a star ⭐️.
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u/Soul_Taker_69 Nov 12 '24
I agree, but I have no idea where those curls are coming from because those curls are not pitbull or American Staffordshire terriers. Your Doggo looks really freaking cool.
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u/Just_an_Nsfwer Nov 12 '24
Poodle-? Doodle-? I dunno man he's a funky dog that's for sure.
Edit: Maybe even terrier-? He's so pretty, he doesn't look like a mutt or modified by much at all. Like he just happened completely naturally and he's so strange
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u/Starlady174 Nov 12 '24
OP shared his results! He's APBT/ Staffy/ American Bulldog via Embark. He's an anomaly and he is perfection.
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u/TomatoeMan3 Nov 12 '24
This dog looks like you have a beer with, and he give you advice straight up and calls you on all your bullshit. But he's still a good boy and a loyal boy.
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u/Accomplished-Tie-650 Nov 12 '24
Does he smoke a pipe, wear a top hat and talk in a British accent?
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u/justUseAnSvm Nov 13 '24
Really what appears to be a unique dog. I'm stumped.
If I had to bet, I'd say this is some type of somatic mutation. It's very rare, but again, 3+ years of internet dogs and dog parks since my dog came, and I've never seen anything like this.
I can't get you an answer, but I'd suggest checking out some more resources, like this: http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/oddities.html
Unfortunately the methodology that Embark uses (SNP microarray) can only detect genomic regions they are looking for. With this dog, there could easily be a mutation, or a rare recessive gene.
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u/alicethemagicfox Nov 11 '24
I'm very invested in knowing what this boy is. He's so stinking cute!!!!
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u/human-ish_ Nov 11 '24
I don't know what he's selling, but I'm buying. And if it's a cult? You better believe I'm joining.
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u/Tweed_Kills Nov 11 '24
He looks like a judge from the 1800s. Especially one with a name like Fall Not To Temptation Whitford or something.
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u/Maleficent_Bear5117 Nov 12 '24
I’ve never seen a dog like this. Can definitely see the pit in him and his eyes are so beautiful. He has so much intelligence behind them
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u/Sad_Meringue_4550 Nov 12 '24
This dog was designed by BioWare. He's somehow both The Most Dog-Like Dog in the World while also looking nothing at all like any dog has ever looked.
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u/Unlikely-Hawk3476 Nov 12 '24
It’s been a rough week…rough month actually and Jagger made my day. He is a Grizzled knight guarding something very serious. The holy grail? The passage to the land of fairie?…
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u/sosovain616 Nov 12 '24
😭😭😭😭 i love this dog so much lol omg…. He is absolutely awesome!!! He looks like of president Taft lived during the Elizabethan period 😭
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u/WyvernJelly Nov 11 '24
What test did you do? If it wasn't Embark or Wisdom I'd suggest redoing it. The are long hair pit bulls but the ones I've seen don't have coats like your guy.
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u/calvin-coolidge Nov 11 '24
This is the most interesting looking dog ever…. Can’t wait to see the results. What test did you do? I don’t see it in the comments…
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Nov 11 '24
My eyes were playing trick I read it as “Mick Jagger”. Very unique looking n quite handsome-a pit with a lion’s mane.
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u/Mission_Albatross916 Nov 11 '24
This is such a cool looking dog. Is it really him Or is he in a costume?
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u/ThatPerson000 Nov 12 '24
Do you shave his fur like that, or is it natural? His curls are hilarious
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u/blissout2day Nov 12 '24
He reminds me of the Lion from the Wizard of Oz:) How’s his personality? How old is he??
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u/royalewithcheese84 Nov 12 '24
Rebecca, it is time. For sustenance. Please bring my vittles. Do it now.
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u/Silly_punkk Nov 12 '24
Oh how I love mutts, what a goofy creature
My best guess would be some genetic mutation. Did you check that section of your embark results? The standard test only checks for a few, but there might be something that explains this. I’d possibly get a health specific test from Embark or Wisdom.
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