r/CyclePDX • u/mobileupload • 1d ago
The exciting N Willamette Blvd project just got very real
https://bikeportland.org/2025/01/10/the-exciting-n-willamette-blvd-project-just-got-very-real-39215515
u/DJ_Febreeze 1d ago
Super excited to have the concrete bumpers and an improved curve where Williamette meets rosa parks. That turn is way too tight
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u/Sultanofslide 1d ago
Paired with people that can't turn their cars for shit it always makes me nervous when I head through that part of town
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u/kermatog 1d ago
Yeah, I've never seen a car NOT dip into the bike lane around that curve. Would not test any driver around that bend.
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u/leegalisit 1d ago
The stoke meter is high! Use this to bike downtown from St John's. It will be the bike commuting equivalent of riding fresh powder on a snowboard
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u/doshido 1d ago
Yay, more “fire friendly speed cushions” the encourage idiots to speed on the wrong side of the road towards oncoming traffic. It’s a shit show on Fessenden with these things, the other alternative for these ding dongs seems to be driving in the bike lane
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u/mobileupload 16h ago
Fessenden doesn’t have traffic separators, so it is possible to drive in the bike lane to get wheels in one of the gaps for less of a bump. On Willamette all of the cushions are between the separators so the only way to avoid them is to cross the double yellow. People will probably do this sometimes. But it will be harder and people will likely slow down to avoid the bumps. Either way, it’s a different setup than Fessenden.
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u/TedsFaustianBargain 1d ago
PBOT is indeed capable of doing good work. Just not on 82nd Ave for some reason.
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u/Hologram22 1d ago
Well, they've only had jurisdiction over 82nd Ave for like two years. Everything from before that is squarely on the dinosaurs at ODOT.
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u/TedsFaustianBargain 1d ago
I’m alluding to the plans to improve 82nd Ave. PBOT has in the works. It’s better than what 82nd Ave is now, but definitely not as good as this.
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u/Hologram22 1d ago
Eh, I think they're fine. They're layering the work to take care of the low hanging fruit as quickly as possible while doing the design and public process necessary for a bigger overhaul.
If you're talking about the concept PBOT presented to the previous city council, I also think it's a fine starting point. I do, however, take exception to the idea that transit and cyclists should be at odds with each other, which was the tone taken at city council. I hope and expect the new council (and the mayor, too) to be a bit more critical than Mr. Ryan was ebullient at those plans.
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u/TedsFaustianBargain 1d ago
I think a lot of people will die and it’s totally inconsistent with vision zero. 🤷♂️
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u/Hologram22 1d ago
I think it's far too early to come to that conclusion. High level concepts are just that: high-level. There's a lot of detail work to be done for the devils and angels to hide in.
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u/TedsFaustianBargain 1d ago
I’m just going off of what was in their report. If they present something better, I’d be more than happy to change my mind.
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u/tomjoad773 1d ago edited 1d ago
Prefacing this with context that I've regularly ridden in at least 3 major cities in several states - and believe that cars aren't going anywhere soon, so we need to work with rather than against the status quo...
These are interesting changes but often it seems like they make these bike lane design decisions in a vacuum. I really really want to see maps of impacted traffic patterns in the surrounding few blocks around these interchanges. Often I see well-meaning bike infrastructure updates that end up interrupting motor vehicle traffic without a good alternative. Biking infrastructure is fantastic but if you create impediments to motor vehicle traffic that encourages people to take side streets through residential neighborhoods, it doesn’t really feel like a net positive. And it creates more opportunities for conflict between vehicles and pedestrians.
For example “they will also add concrete curbs to the centerline to prevent impatient car users from passing stopped buses and other vehicles”
Everybody’s ideal route between point A to point B is straight, flat, and uninterrupted. You can’t just intentionally stop the flow of traffic to spite people without expecting a reaction or workaround to that. And at this point, if there’s buses and turning vehicles that completely stop traffic on a street that is intended to be a thorough fare, that’s literally design failure on behalf of the transportation department because they’re failing to provide the required functionality of the street. Side streets don’t have the same engineering as an arterial so that’s going to cause increased wear and tear, and higher conflict on streets that were not designed with high volume through traffic in mind.
edit: im expecting to receive downvotes because this is not aligned with typical cycling dogma but would love to hear responses as well
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u/Hologram22 1d ago
Private automobiles aren't going anywhere, you're right about that, but they are the most expensive and inefficient mode of transportation with a host of negative externalities. As such, they should be deprioritized and placed at the bottom of the modal hierarchy, rather than the top spot motorists have enjoyed since the 1940s. In order to flip that paradigm and make our transportation network safer, more sustainable, and accommodating, rather than hostile, to the humans who interact with it, design choices must be made that directly inconvenience motorists so that the automobiles do not impede on the safe and effective use of pedestrian, cycling, and mass transit facilities. This means providing fewer public resources, such as right-of-way space, dedicated to the private automobile. This means "straight, flat, and uninterrupted" routes will be made meandering and slower. This means public subsidies for motorists will be removed and replaced with fees that account for the costs their behavior exert on the society around them. And the natural response will be that some, hopefully many, motorists will opt to ditch their car for an alternative mode. The ultimate goal should be to create a system where walking, cycling, and taking mass transit is just as, if not more, convenient and fast as taking a private automobile. The wild and counterintuitive ultimate result will be an improved transportation experience for all transiters, including motorists, who will have less congestion and better maintained facilities to deal with.
And to your specific example of motorists diverting down residential side streets, the proper response is not to make the adjacent thoroughfares more accommodating for them to the detriment of everyone else. Rather, it's to create improvements to the transportation network that make the side streets undesirable to drive on for anybody who isn't coming from or going to an origin or destination along the side streets. Examples of such improvements include narrowed space for general traffic, speed bumps, and modal filters (also known as diverters), etc.
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u/jr98664 23h ago
Please explain how any of these safety improvements for people biking make N Willamette demonstrably worse for people who choose to drive.
Good luck, because designs like these make major streets like this safer for everyone, regardless of mode. Done properly, protected bike lanes even make for a better driving experience. Bike lanes are for cars, after all. If there were no cars, people biking wouldn’t need bike lanes, and definitely not protected ones.
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u/mobileupload 16h ago
A car having to briefly stop behind a car waiting to turn or a bus letting passengers off is a design failure? These changes are going in to prevent drivers from doing things that are already illegal. No car lanes are being removed. I’m having trouble figuring out your argument, which is probably why you are getting downvotes.
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u/dayyob 1d ago
i can't fucking wait! i ride this route so often. so glad they're improving it so much w/curbs. so often i see cars use the bike lane to go around cars that are stopped waiting to turn left onto woolsey etc. or cutting through the bike lane on every curve. many drivers are very alert and aware of cyclists on willamette and give right of way etc so the curbs will only make things clearer and simpler hopefully. also hoping this leads to an uptick in sweeping the road/lanes in fall when they're covered w/leaves and pine needles etc.