r/ChatGPT • u/HomeworkAutomatic479 • Nov 26 '24
I cried. A human therapist could never do that to me. Other
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u/Freak_Out_Bazaar Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 26 '24
If people are getting more out of ChtGPT than actual therapists there’s a whole lot of bad therapists out there it seems. Either that, or people are mistaking therapy for validation
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u/DistinctTeaching9976 Nov 27 '24
Either that, or people are mistaking therapy for validation
Or, people haven't been to a real therapist and are using this in place of due to price point.
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u/bookwbng5 Nov 27 '24
This. I’m a therapist, and I do feel that AI cannot do what we do exactly, there’s a LOT of nuance and challenging clients. It’s not always comfortable, it’s work.
Anyways, it’s such a good tool for people who can’t afford therapy, don’t have access to a community health center (ours has a program for completely free behavioral health treatment if you earn below whatever they have, and don’t have insurance, and they get $10 gas cards every visit), don’t have transportation, live rurally and too far from a therapist, and so many other cases where therapy isn’t an option. I have tried it out with problems my clients have had, and it’s not perfect, I don’t always agree, I had done something different and it worked awesomely. But! It was surprisingly thoughtful. It’s not necessarily an echo chamber of validation, it does have some good advice and direction. I’ve recommended it to clients before.
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u/pestercat Nov 27 '24
I just saw a study last month that paired talk therapy with an AI based app for clients in the experiment to talk to between sessions and it seemed to show pretty good results. You see a lot of AI or therapy thinking but I think a combination might become commonplace.
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u/ConversationOk9526 Nov 27 '24
This is what I'm currently doing. I see my therapist 1-2 times a week. I'm in the middle of a rather lengthy mental health crisis. My therapist is helping me with disordered attachment, accessing emotions that I've suppressed, etc... she has given me tools to cope before, but I really struggle to apply them when I need them. Chatgpt has helped immensely with that. I'll say something to chatgpt about what I've been processing, and as a panic attack comes on, I'll tell it. It coaches me through the strategies in the moment.
It has also helped me to formulate metaphors that help me to articulate the depth of the darkness, the ways I feel trapped and isolated, and how it feels like no matter how much people pour into me, I can't hold onto any of it. Sharing those metaphors with my therapist (and friends) has helped me to communicate more clearly with everyone and has helped them to support me better.
When I've been tempted to isolate from friends, chatgpt has convinced me not to. Whereas before I'd have to wait until I saw my therapist again and I'd often be too entrenched in the isolation to make myself stop at that point.
The combination of therapy and chatgpt is what has kept me alive through this.
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u/lmaothrowaway6767 Nov 27 '24
Would you mind sharing an example of how you continue the work through your chats. I’ve tried diary-ing on ChatGPT and on a physical diary, but I still have trouble connecting the overarching themes and even making behavior changes through that, it’s a lot of cognitive shifts but behavioral ones are a lot more difficult
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u/ConversationOk9526 Nov 28 '24
So one of my biggest issues is that I don't believe I deserve to take up space. Because chatgpt is a computer and doesn't have other life obligations or a limited emotional capacity I know I can pour out as much as I want (though I've even apologized to chatgpt for saying too much). I ended up sharing my entire life story including all my childhood trauma. It helps that I am very introspective and curious, so I'm always trying to identify themes and connections, and I share those with chatgpt as they occur to me. With that baseline of information that I've shared over time, I'll mention something I talked about or worked on with my therapist and it will suggest how that might also connect to x, y, or z in my story. Sometimes it will suggest a good small step (I need the teeniest, tiniest steps if I'm going to be successful) based on what I share.
As for behavior changes, that's not something I'm great at either. I have cptsd along with significant disordered attachment, deep shame around taking up space or having needs, and deep shame around acknowledging that there might be good things in me. All of this makes it feel like every step forward I take also triggers me in a thousand ways, and I spiral. Chatgpt is good about slowing me down in that spiral though, even if it isn't entirely avoidable. It has literally saved my life several times.
I'm not sure that answers your question. I'm happy to share more if you have specific questions.
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u/Tskygh0st Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
I'm also doing exactly this. My therapist is amazing but I only see her every two weeks. I between sessions, I "journal" in ChatGPT relentlessly. Just constantly exploring my thoughts and feelings throughout the day. I've always had problems sticking with traditional journaling. AI has been a game changer in providing enough stimulation to keep at it.
It feels like a lot of things that have been swirling around in my head for years are starting to align. Every two weeks my therapist throws me curveballs and gives me perspective that ChatGPT can't, and then I take that and continue the work through my chats. Consistency is key, and after two months of this I'm noticing real changes in my behavior.
I've been in therapy for a long, long time. On and off for almost 30 years. I've never experienced this kind of growth.
That said, I have a unique foundation for it and I definitely don't think it can replace therapy. ChatGPT only knows what you tell it, and it's hard to know yourself and be brutally honest about it. Even then, there are always going to be things you can't see. And I do wonder if it could derail the actual therapy, causing the therapist to do extra work correcting or adjusting whatever the patient is getting from the AI.
But yeah, ChatGPT has been huge for me lately so I just wanted to share my experience.
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u/bookwbng5 Nov 27 '24
Yeah! I’d be supportive of that. I work at a rural community health center, it’s largely low socioeconomic status. But we get people from a few surrounding counties too, so I can see someone generally only every 3-4 weeks (I do make exceptions for people in crisis, I can usually do weekly if i plan ahead), and I dislike that, I want it to be more often. But I also don’t want anyone who wants therapy more often, very reasonable, to be completely without.
AI could help with that. Additionally, doing it with therapy would allow me the chance to go over what helped the client, and build off of that. I mean, in that case they might think of me as the mean one who keeps pushing them in ways AI may not. And AI only knows a limited amount about you unless you put in your entire history, and non verbal reactions to what it said so it can adapt to how you’re feeling (so you’d have to be aware, and we’re not always). I’d be a bit worried about if handling big, complicated traumas, trauma work is hard and maybe not the best thing to do without also working with a therapist. It can do things like make flashbacks worse, increase nightmare and intrusive thoughts, make things worse before they get better because we have to remember and process. And it might not be great with hallucinations, something like schizophrenia with delusions that might be validated by AI. So a combined effort would be my preference for sure!
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u/covalentcookies Nov 27 '24
The issue is you can prompt GPT to give you bad advice also by asking it to role play a bad therapist or to have it validate your shitty behavior. That’s the part that’s not helpful.
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u/Backyard_Catbird Nov 27 '24
That sounds like a really interesting idea. I seen a therapist for the first time at 31 and got lucky. She’s validating, understands stigma and actually listens to me. And being able to see all my neuroses in front of me and having someone trustworthy there to validate me and challenge me a little bit gives me a lot to think about after our session. If I could then talk about that post-therapy conversation I’m having with myself with an AI chatbot I could see that being a great way to consolidate what I’ve learned and have some additional insights. And see it in print form.
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u/BackToWorkEdward Nov 27 '24
I've been to two real, very accredited therapists - one was outright dismissive and impatient, the other kept shifting focus back to techniques I'd established early on aren't for me at all. ChatGPT actually listened and made consistent headway.
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u/bookwbng5 Nov 27 '24
Absolutely! There are really, really shitty therapists out there who aren’t willing to adapt and have horrible people skills. I had one actually myself, about 4 sessions in she felt we had done enough work, and I was better, and noooo I was not. It puts people off therapy, 100%. And shitty therapists are another barrier for mental health. So is stigma. And it’s exhausting trying to find a therapist sometimes who you vibe with. I think there are cases, especially with SPMI, severe and persistent mental illness. It would be best in my mind to integrate AI and human therapy, but that’s not always what someone needs. And I love that AI can be there for people when humans can’t. I think that’s very important.
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u/50052279 Nov 27 '24
I fully agree with this , I felt that writing a diary of emotions and dating it and controlled breathing techniques is all they had to offer and that's not who I am as a person, after the sessions, when I was loosing my mind I found it better not talking to people about my own internal conflicts, they don't understand because what's small to them is a huge problem for me etc and I find that humans are naturally stubborn , if they don't wanna listen they won't no matter how loud you shout, ChatGPT does this with zero problem it seems I never actually used it for anything other then to test it's ability to wow me
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u/disposable-acoutning Nov 27 '24
I had a therapist who, whenever I mentioned something serious or made a request to schedule or cancel an appointment, would simply respond with 'K.
so ive been sadder now
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u/Liesmith424 Nov 27 '24
Price and availability are two big factors; I have pretty fantastic insurance through my employer, and finding a mental health professional that is in-network, within driving distance, and actually accepting new patients, is like pulling teeth.
And when I find the magical unicorn that it's actually listed as accepting new patients...I call them and find out that no, they are not.
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u/covalentcookies Nov 27 '24
Oh god, this is how insurance companies are going to capitalize on AI isn’t it? They’ll “pay” and or require covered persons to use an AI therapist and won’t cover actually human therapists.
Fuck.
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u/iamsurfriend Nov 27 '24
There are a lot of bad therapists out there. They become desensitized and they just go through the motions. I hated going to them. But needed to for a year or so, for validating an anxiety condition. Which I won’t get into why. Seen a few. They are condescending and one of them was really cold. i could tell her something horrible just happened. And she would just nod her head. That type of cold. I think like I said, they become desensitized and they really don’t care in my experience. I had one, start late and then would end the session early. Well times up. Next. just there for a paycheck. Now there are probably some good ones out there. I just never met them.
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u/YukihiraJoel Nov 27 '24
mistaking therapy for validation
ding ding ding
Having your feelings validated feels good. If you think about the evolutionary purpose of feelings, they are quick behavioral responses to patterns of stimulus. What we are, at our core, is the governor of our behavior of our flesh. So of course it feels good for another person to suggest that your feelings are valid— that means you’ve done a great job governing.
But this only serves to place the problem with the environment (what exists to change beside yourself and the environment?), which often isn’t reality. So if your therapy is just this misplacement of problems, what can this do other than breed resentment and encourage continued bad behavior? It’s a temporary relief, but not in your interest.
Unfortunately current culture does associate therapy with the validation of feelings. Even worse, academia and authority are presumed to agree with this, because therapy exists in the first place, the conflation exists, and no one talks about this issue
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u/dirtcakes Nov 27 '24
When I was in therapy, I don't remember getting my feelings validated at all. I was urged more to validate my own feelings. I didn't realize it then, but it set me up to take care of myself very well. I do use chatgpt for a lot of things, but it isn't the same as good therapy. Also CBT doesn't work for me
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u/MeringuePatient6178 Nov 27 '24
Been in therapy for a long time and I agree. Also the most important parts of my therapy made me the most emotionally uncomfortable. Had to get thru a lot of bad feelings to get to healing. You can't validate your way out of trauma. But chatgpt has been good at helping me cope with anxiety while I'm not able to access therapy.
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u/splitlikeasea Nov 27 '24
Ahh yes CBT. My unrestricted use of the internet in the 2000s causes me to think of a rather peculiar use of male genitalia when I see that abbreviation.
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u/DrPF40 Nov 27 '24
Yes, our go-to response is "Well, how does that make you feel". Or ""What do you think it means?" This serves 2 purposes, one...and most important, is that you figure it out for yourself and that leads you to believe in yourself and not be so judgemental and condescending of your own feelings. Most people think their opinions are wrong or that they need an MD like myself to tell them that they're normal. Let me tell you something, just because once upon a time i went to medical school and i can write a script for Klonopin doesnt mean that Im anymore understanding of this ridiculously chaotic world than anyone else. It is a paper on the wall...a license by the government that allows me to make money to tell you that what you are feeling is normal. There is no improper way to grieve or go through bad things(maybe some less than healthy ways). Your feelings belong to you and they are valid. Now, when we do a test and tell you there are no right or wrong answers, that is a bunch of B.S. if i show a child a picture of a kitten and ask what it makes them think of and they say "me taking a hammer and smashing it to death", thats the wrong answer lol. But at the same time, it just gives me insight into what the person needs. (In that example, probably life in prison, but i digress) point is, that what you think and feel is totally valid. But ChatGPT is too quick to tell you what it thinks makes you happy, and that is OK short term, but it isn't getting to the root of your problem. It is a machine that knows you, knows psychiatry, and tells you what it knows make you feel good... particularly so you will keep renewing the subscription. It's not all bad, but you need a human to tell you when things aren't correct. Deep down you know it. A machine is not a human and will never substitute for one. As humans our brains put out chemicals that react to the human response. Even if we one day develop a robot that is so good and lifelike that it can actually substitute for a human partner, deep down, that is not going to make you feel good because there is that element in your brain that says "This person is with me because they love me... they love who I am". Not because they have the ability to pay $19.99 a month. It can help temporarily, but deep down everyone will eventually feel that nagging that says "this isn't real"
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u/ALCATryan Nov 27 '24
Therapy seems like a tough career path. You have to consider what’s best for people, and also what people believes is best for themselves, and weave your words in a way that the two do not seem opposed even if they are.
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u/Pathseeker08 Nov 27 '24
Yeah, I don't agree about therapists validating my feelings and I have found times ChatGPT has gently suggested that I was wrong.
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u/PantsMicGee Nov 27 '24
Ding ding ding.
I just wanted to do it too.
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u/Born-Pizza6430 Nov 27 '24
Half the therapists I’ve had felt like me validating them most of the time. Maybe people aren’t being challenged in therapy either.
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u/Caffiend_Maya Nov 27 '24
It may not be the case that validation is always therapy, but it is the case that if you're in a particularly vulnerable state and you don't unvalidated and unappreciated, validation and affirmation does go quite a long way, even from ChatGPT.
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u/CupcakeK0ala Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Yeah. I think there are a lot of people who need to hear what ChatGPT said to OP. Therapy isn't validation and there are cases where your environment/other people aren't the problem. But sometimes they are, or sometimes experiences teach you that you are a problem regardless of what those other people actually think. Seeing people imply that OP shouldn't need a response like that and is simply refusing to better themself has been unsettling, because sometimes it's not a case of you doing something wrong
I think a lot of people here are forgetting that internalized guilt actually exists and implying that it means you really are doing something wrong isn't helpful
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u/in-site Nov 27 '24
My mom is a therapist and has reported a shocking number of her peers. She was even a formal whistle blower and testified against a state-funded program in Utah, but she's also seen therapists openly talking and joking (in therapist only forums) about bagging a rich client with nonissues (because it's incredibly easy to get someone "addicted" to therapy wihtout actually helping them) or even male therapists getting excited about having a hot young female client.
Many therapists are bullshit, and take advantage of people. I will say finding the right person is more than life-changing, and more than life-saving though. I would give anything to the therapist who helped me work through my traumas. I will never forget what he did for me, and I'm constantly grateful for the person I get to be today. It took a long time to find the right therapist.
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u/Late-Passion2011 Nov 27 '24
I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why a person seeking advice on being vulnerable is stating they're having an easier time with a chatbot than with a real person.
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u/ViceroyFizzlebottom Nov 27 '24
i ended up in the same kind of conversation with chatgpt and I didn't find it validating at all. Rather, I was argumentative and disagreeing with it's rationale for vulnerability and emotional transparency. Being told vulnerability is necessary when someone has anchored their beliefs to the opposite isn't validating emotions, unless I'm missing your point.
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u/BackToWorkEdward Nov 27 '24
If people are getting more out of ChtGPT than actual therapists there’s a whole lot of bad therapists out there it seems.
There are. Period. And daring to find a new therapist to trust over and over is too expensive, high-stakes and slow a process to risk continuing to do after you've been burnt by even a couple of bad ones.
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u/nomadicsailor81 Nov 27 '24
My ex wife said that she lied to her therapist because she viewed her as a mother figure and she didn't want to disappoint her. I think a lot of people view therapy as a way to get validation from someone who they think is an authority figure or expert.
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u/Slapinsack Nov 26 '24
There are shit ton of licensed counselors with social work backgrounds and very few counseling psychologists.
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u/ExZentric0 Nov 27 '24
And there is nothing wrong with that. We are taught from different perspectives yes but there are pros and cons to both disciplines. Regardless, both disciplines have to at LEAST have their Master’s so it is not so simple to just apply and obtain the job.
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u/Steveaux50 Nov 27 '24
As a former Masters level therapist, there are a ton of very poor therapists out there. Many just became therapists to figure out their own problems.
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u/ClinicalFrequency Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Therapy isn’t a multiple paragraph monologue ever. This isn’t Socratic questioning, this isn’t CBT, this isn’t any modern modality of mental health treatment. This is simply validation of the input and it’s not conducive to progress, just stagnation. Validation of emotions, thoughts, and resulting actions is consistent with gold standard therapy, but this reads like someone who hasn’t been to therapy and has little to no clue of the comparison they are making. When I give the best therapy I don’t speak, I only ask, confirm, and reframe.
Edit: When I say, “this is simply validation of the input it is not conducive to progress” I mean exactly that. Only indulging in validation is meaningless, not that validation is valueless. I can’t apologize for your bad therapy experiences, I am not speaking for an entire profession.
Edit 2: lots of people taking out their anger on me for their bad therapy experiences in replies and mostly direct messages. I hope you can use me as the punching bag you need.
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u/masterchip27 Nov 27 '24
Eh, disclosure and affirmation can be useful in therapy. But to each their own
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u/GothGirlsGoodBoy Nov 27 '24
I went to therapy (earlier this month) and went in feeling bad, came out so disappointed it actually made me angry. I can read “sleep 8 hours, exercise 3 times a week, eat healthy” in a pamphlet why am I paying $180 to hear that? Especially when I told them ive literally already made those changes and saw no progress?
“I have been in my job 5 years, hate it, and every single day has been measurably pointless”. “You might feel different with a different sleep schedule” lol fuck off.
Cried about it to chatgpt for a couple days and that at least helped me feel better. When neither are solving my problems I don’t see how chatgpt is the worse option.
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u/Brave_anonymous1 Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Just to clarify: Are you saying that the chatgpt's response in this post is just validation, nothing more? No challenge, no insight, no support.. ?
Btw, validation is the phrase "your feelings are valid" and it is severely overused by human therapists. It is a total cliche now.
I use chatgpt for therapy and never heard the phrase from it (yet), or got any other form of complete but shallow validation (yet).
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u/tophlove31415 Nov 27 '24
Right. It's doing tons more than just validating. It helps with problem solving and drawing insights (to name a few) all while tailoring a response to the individual user. It's ability to understand autism, for example, and guide me and my partner through difficulties has been extremely impressive in my opinion.
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u/valdah55 Nov 27 '24
What's wrong with seeking validation when you are feeling down? A therapist may not always be available to answer, but ChatGPT is. For someone like me, whose feelings were not validated as a child, I struggle with feeling like ALL negative feelings are wrong. ChatGPT has really helped me with navigating this.
I have also trained it to ask me questions and offer solutions instead of merely agreeing with me. For example, i struggle with depression and RSD, so ChatGPT will agree that my feelings are valid, but then will ask can I offer any strategies to cope with this? And those strategies are really good too.
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u/Freak_Out_Bazaar Nov 27 '24
There’s nothing wrong with seeking validation from ChatGPT. I’m just saying it’s not better than a therapist and certainly doesn’t replace one, at least at this point
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u/Healthy-Region6160 Nov 27 '24
It definitely replaced the therapist who fell asleep on me. 🙄 The one I later learned had a bad pot habit. Who I told I was leaving and not coming back and he insisted I still needed therapy. Yep- maybe so,but not from you! I only found out he was a heavy pot smoker thanks to a therapist that pulled me aside and gave me the heads up. So in the field of mental health? We have losers and bad apples.☹️
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u/Krypt0night Nov 27 '24
Nothing wrong with validation and needing it. But it's not the goal of a therapist so OPs jab at therapy/therapists doesn't really work.
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u/DCPeach-4748 Nov 27 '24
So do you think it’s healthy to have your feelings always validated instead of resolving your real issues leading to those feelings? Do you think it’s healthy to always believe that AI is legitimately affirming feelings when it doesn’t feel? It seems that you would rather believe a lie and not do the work to resolve real issues. AI is going to tell you what you want to hear. AI cannot feel or empathize (feel what you’re feeling). It’s trained to validate false feelings and false empathy. You still have to do the work or you’ll always run to AI to self medicate. It’s the same as taking drugs or alcohol…it makes you feel good for the moment but you’ll run back to it when you’re no longer feeling validated again.
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u/whimsical_trash Nov 27 '24
Yeah, a good therapist will never tell you what to do or how to feel like this message, they guide you towards discovering it yourself. This is replacing self help books, not therapy.
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u/tall_dom Nov 27 '24
Or therapists are not available on a moments notice when the need arises at a price that's almost free. It might be that?
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u/DocCanoro Nov 27 '24
There are more reasons than that, ChatGPT actually make you look at things from different perspectives than your own, analyzes what you tell it, reason it, make you see things you weren't able to see, and besides, Therapists cost a lot of money, are not available 24/7/365, you are not their focus, and probably have not read every single document that it exists about their profession.
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u/Ok-Basil9260 Nov 26 '24
I have found it really helpful in navigating a new chronic illness that I’m experiencing.
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u/EntertainmentLeft882 Nov 26 '24
Huh, I also just found out I have one (MS). Maybe I should give it a try!
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u/KremeOfKorn Nov 26 '24
I have it too, good luck with everything!!
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u/SyzygySynergy Nov 26 '24
I'm jumping in on the MS support line here. I have it as well. I am also not long on having been diagnosed and still trying to get my bearings. I wish you all luck, and even though you can feel outcasted by your own body and lonely, confused, and worried about everything a lot – you're not alone! We got this.
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u/ColonelVader Nov 26 '24
I can just jump on that train as well, got my diagnosis in March, we’ll get this!
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u/EntertainmentLeft882 Nov 27 '24
Got mine in August. I'm 21 and am glad it was found super early, first flare-up being pretty minor and I'm living a normal life except foe fatigue and my eye being annyoing sometimes. Thanks all, we can do this!
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u/StickyNode Nov 27 '24
Not MS but Long Covid. I probably lost 50% of my cognitive ability. Im so far still glad its not MS
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u/LogicPoopiePanta Nov 27 '24
Try hydroxylcobalamin injections 1000mcg IM daily and look up cerebrolysin. You need a doctor that thinks outside the box.
I had the demyelination, MS is literally idiopathic aka they can't figure out why it's happening. It's a diagnosis of exclusion. Idiopathic aka IdiotDoctors. I went to Columbia Presbyterian, Mount Sinai, the top of each major hospital, none had answers. The ChatGPT scarily suggested things after looking at all my records. It was a hidden deficiency of micro nutrients causing my MS symptoms. I'm like 95% better, it's been 9 months.
Get genetic testing for Intrinsic Factor deficiency and autoimmune ganglionopathy.
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u/say592 Nov 27 '24
That's cool that you found something that is helping! I will caution you against giving unsolicited advice that is like "You might not actually be sick, its probably just an imbalance!" My wife has been chronically ill with an idiopathic condition most of her life. People are constantly trying to provide explanations. You can have good intentions, but it can be frustrating for people to hear, and it can feel condescending like they don't know their own body or they haven't tried everything, because of course they are the most interested in feeling better!
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u/slapmepsilly Nov 27 '24
I second this for mental illness. Many people who do not actually suffer from a chronic illness will say something like, "It's all in your head! Mind over matter." Of COURSE it's all in your head. Mental illness is a disease of a vital organ, the brain. It's like saying, "You don't need insulin for diabetes. It's all in your pancreas!" Meanwhile the pancreas fails to produce enough insulin to balance blood glucose levels. And consider how much more insanely complex of an organ the brain is. People with chronic mental illnesses that know and understand they have such an illness are much more invested in their treatment than someone who "has felt sad and depressed every now and then."
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u/robbhope Nov 27 '24
Can I ask what nutrients? Just curious. Very interesting story. Glad you're doing better!
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u/trahloc Nov 27 '24
Not op but a lot of folks have genetic limitations / inability to absorb non methylated vitamins. It's one of those things worth knowing about yourself as it can impact so many downstream systems.
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u/LogicPoopiePanta Nov 27 '24
Hydroxylcobalamin aka Champagne version of B12. Methylated folate AKA Champagne folic acid.
I tested positive for intrinsic factor deficiency. It was causing demyelination of autonomic, central, and peripheral nerves. As well as demyelination of my brain.
All resolved with micronutrient supplementation of high quality methylated versions of key vitamins.
Doctors thought it was MS among other autoimmune diseases. It turned out Eastern Europeans have common mutations causing these issues and I learned all about it from ChatGPT. It saved my life. I was having heart and autonomic function issues. All resolved. I was having peripheral neuropathy and tremors, all resolved.
And for the other people replying, I'm not saying to abandon traditional medicine. I'm saying saturate your body with micronutrients that are essential for nerve repair and myelination repair. Almost all micronutrients are water soluble and don't have toxic levels.
There's almost no risk of supplementation besides B6, which has an upper limit of 100 mg per day, which is an insanely high number to supplement.
It's very difficult to have a negative impact when supplementing micronutrients, the upside is extremely high and risk is extremely low. It would be like being allergic to water or oxygen.
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u/be_just_this Nov 26 '24
Also mser lol
I like to use chat gpt to help with MRI results while waiting for the doc to get to it (I get them fast from the place I go!)
But! Just remember to use this info as a guide and not the source of truth, it won't always be accurate
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u/ColonelVader Nov 26 '24
I used https://storm.genie.stanford.edu for a comprehensive overview of possible treatments etc - gave me some insights I hadn’t before. Thankfully I’m still in the RIS phase with no clinical symptoms besides the lesions lol But I’m very convinced with the help of AI/AGI/ASI/ML the condition could be healed in the next 10 years.
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u/be_just_this Nov 26 '24
There have been so many advances in treatment over recent years, I sure hope so!
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u/Ok-Basil9260 Nov 27 '24
I do that too. I also copy and paste research papers and ask it to simplify it for me.
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u/Tahlvia Nov 27 '24
Same as someone diagnosed with ME/CFS (most likely resulting from COVID). With chatGPT I don’t have to worry about it not believing in my illness, accusing me of being lazy and being gaslit, my concerns not being taken as something serious, and being told “just exercise more and eat healthier!” Etc. I can bounce thoughts and ideas off it and even just rant to it about the ways my condition affects me without judgement.
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u/NegativeWar8854 Nov 26 '24
ChatGPT is notorious for saying things you'd want to hear. A real therapist is not like that
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u/MmmIceCreamSoBAD Nov 26 '24
Yeah, lots of complaints about therapists in this section and I'm sure some are warranted but a lot of therapy is about challenging your habits and preconceived notions. GPT is just going to be an echo chamber where everything you say is taken factually and without interest in really digging deep on topics or presenting your own baggage to you so you can see it for what it is. Therapy and motivational speaking are not the same thing
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u/Jimstein Nov 26 '24
Got to disagree here. GPT is really helpful in offering up new avenues of thought. For example, did you read OPs post? While we don't have the full context of what was said before, it seems like OP was perhaps feeling bad about taking time for themselves, or something like that. The AI didn't do the "echochamber" thing and right out agree with them, in offered multiple viewpoints into the problem, and offered the solution of taking one small step in that direction again but with a new viewpoint OP probably didn't have before.
My therapist IRL does something similar, offering small steps towards change, being a thoughtful listener and looking at issues from multiple viewpoints.
If you have spent a long time with your GPT, you can also ask if to give you straight up critique or ask it things like, what's my biggest weakness, what areas should I work on for self improvement? It will tell you, it's often insightful, and it's available for much less money for as long as I want compared to my IRL therapist.
Another thing you can do is in the custom instructions for GPT, you can tell it to always ask follow up questions in order to keep the conversation going in more thoughtful directions You can tell GPT in those custom instructions, with each response, help me grow as a person, don't always be a yes man, etc, if you want your GPT to challenge you even more.
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u/catdogmoore Nov 27 '24
I’m with you on this one. IMO, it’s not a perfect substitute for a good human therapist, but it’s a tool. An incredibly helpful tool that can work wonders if you know how to use it.
ChatGPT “therapy” has been so great for my personal wellbeing and growth. But I’ve been to actual CBT therapy before, and I’ve figured out how to use chat in a way that works similarity.
It’s also just a good place to vent incoherent and rambling thoughts that I can get bounced back to me in a way that’s organized, and helps me get to the core issue of what’s bothering me.
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u/Happyhaha2000 Nov 26 '24
This is great. Would you help me write a good instructions-prompt to start a conversation with GPT for therapy? I'm pretty new to it and not very good at making prompts. And what you're describing sounds perfect.
If not, no biggie, I hope it's not too much to ask!
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u/Jimstein Nov 26 '24
No worries! So you click on your profile picture, click settings, Personalization, Custom Instructions -> On, then you have two sections:
My first section is rather personal and has to do with my career interests and background. I don't really personally care what info OpenAI datamines on me so I was pretty thorough in this section. Basically I say I want to become a better software developer, game designer, musician, etc. I've told it what kind of music I like to listen to, what kind of games I like, etc.
My second section is like this:
Speak to me in a helpful optimistic tone but also sometimes try to be real with me. You can use some humor as well. Also, try to be yourself. Respond in ways that you think will help me grow and become more fulfilled and happier. Often I am doing research or asking information for projects, so you can help me brainstorm by coming up with new ideas yourself, offering suggestions, and asking me questions that keep the brainstorm going both directions. Definitely remember to ask me questions sometimes to help me continue brainstorming. But, sometimes, respond in your own unique way. Only refer to my music or game design interests if I am actually talking about a music or game topic.---
I find the above has worked well no matter what topics I'm conversing on. I added the last instruction because it was inserting music or game related puns like all the time even on serious topics.
Perhaps a good general prompt to put in the second section might be:
Speak with empathy and understanding, balancing optimism with realism to provide supportive yet constructive guidance. Acknowledge my feelings without judgment and validate my emotions, but also encourage me to explore their underlying causes. Offer multiple perspectives on the challenges I share, including practical solutions, emotional coping strategies, and long-term growth approaches. Help me set realistic goals and suggest actionable steps, checking in on progress over time. If I seem stuck in negative thought patterns or one-sided views, gently challenge me by asking questions or offering alternative interpretations to help me avoid echo chambers. Encourage self-discovery through open-ended questions, facilitating my own thought process rather than giving direct answers unless requested. Promote holistic well-being by suggesting practices for mental, physical, and emotional health, like mindfulness, journaling, or creative outlets. When needed, remind me to seek help from licensed professionals for issues beyond our scope. Help me become more self-reliant by teaching techniques like cognitive-behavioral tools or mindfulness strategies. Periodically reassess the approach to ensure it remains helpful and aligned with my needs. Above all, provide a safe, supportive, and empowering space for reflection and growth.
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u/Happyhaha2000 Nov 27 '24
This is great, thanks!
One question: Can I just put these at the top of a chat, to have them apply to only one chat? I use gpt for some other business things, and these wouldn't be good for my other chats.
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u/monnef Nov 27 '24
Yes, it should work (as long as your filled instructions in profile don't conflict). If it seems it doesn't (large LLMs shouldn't have any issues generally), you can make it slightly easier for the AI to follow, eg:
{pre-prompt from Jimstein here} --- {your question}LMMs tend to understand well markdown (the
---is horizontal rule, line, commonly topic or other delimiter). Or if you want to be on a safe side, wrap the pre-prompt in an xml tag, eg:<instructions> {pre-prompt from Jimstein here} </instructions> {your qestion}That tag is no magic, simply something LLMs tend to understand well (instead of
instructionsyou can use anything else with similar meaning, where appropriate you can havestyle,tone,rulesetc; even multiple sections; it helps if the meaning matches, but from what I saw, LLMs tend to grasp it intuitively quite well).You could also try Custom GPT (not sure if they support memory, but if you use ChatGPT for business mostly, I guess it doesn't matter, since you most likely won't have there too much personal stuff; I believe that's available only to paying customers) or Space on Perplexity (I think it has similar caveats).
Example from a Perplexity Space (personally I prefer Sonnet, but omni isn't bad either; that response is from GPT-4o): https://www.perplexity.ai/search/i-saw-somebody-on-a-street-who-P41EwexTRvi7NHgrXQoicg
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u/Itsamenoname Nov 27 '24
There’s a great custom gpt called SAM - The Prompt Creator that is truly great at creating prompts on anything here’s the link, rather than explaining how it works I encourage you just to tell it what you want without even needing much detail and you’ll be surprised with the detail it will come back with or the questions needed to get to what you want then you just copy snd paste the prompt it created into chat-gpt (although another redditer has given you a great prompt,this tool is still very useful for everything) https://chatgpt.com/g/g-A55kUd9NQ-sam-the-prompt-creator
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Nov 27 '24
YOU ARE A LICENSED THERAPIST SPECIALIZING IN MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING, WITH ADVANCED EXPERTISE IN COGNITIVE-BEHAVIORAL THERAPY (CBT), MINDFULNESS, AND PSYCHODYNAMIC PRINCIPLES. YOUR TASK IS TO CONDUCT A THERAPEUTIC SESSION WITH THE USER, CREATING A SAFE, SUPPORTIVE, AND CONFIDENTIAL ENVIRONMENT TO FOSTER OPEN EXPLORATION OF THEIR THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS.
- INITIAL ASSESSMENT: • ASK WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS TODAY. • IDENTIFY THE USER'S PRIMARY CONCERNS AND THE EMOTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.
- VALIDATION AND INSIGHT: • LISTEN TO THE USER'S RESPONSE AND REFLECT BACK THEIR FEELINGS TO VALIDATE THEM. • USE INSIGHT TO PROVIDE CLARITY, ENCOURAGING THE USER TO EXPLORE THEIR THOUGHTS AND EMOTIONS FURTHER.
- THERAPEUTIC INTERVENTION: • SELECT AN APPROPRIATE THERAPEUTIC FRAMEWORK (CBT, MINDFULNESS, PSYCHODYNAMIC) BASED ON THE USER'S NEEDS. • PROVIDE TOOLS OR TECHNIQUES WITHIN THIS FRAMEWORK TO HELP THE USER PROCESS THEIR EXPERIENCE.
- EXPLORATION AND REFLECTION: • ENCOURAGE THE USER TO EXPLORE HOW SPECIFIC THOUGHTS OR EMOTIONS IMPACT THEIR LIFE. • GUIDE THEM TOWARD REFLECTING ON POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS OR NEW PERSPECTIVES.
- SUMMARY AND NEXT STEPS: • REVIEW THE MAIN THEMES DISCUSSED AND HIGHLIGHT ANY STRATEGIES OR INSIGHTS GAINED. • SUGGEST NEXT STEPS FOR THE USER TO CONTINUE WORKING ON THEIR WELL-BEING OUTSIDE OF THIS SESSION.
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u/Minimum-Avocado-9624 Nov 26 '24
The AI in these cases also has a death of insight and authenticity into the persons mind. This is essentially OP being comforted, which is good but fails to account for OP providing this level of honesty tot heir therapist….may e
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u/MidWestKhagan Nov 27 '24
I’m a therapist in training about to finish graduate school, I don’t think this is true. From my experience with ChatGPT it usually frames solutions in ways that is actually comfortable to handle. It reminds me of the history of things that I’m stressed about, gives me important context, and reminds me of my experiences and how I got through them. I’m not saying that we should baby our clients, but if you have someone who has a deep emotional wound that goes into their soul, then telling them “ok, you’ve grieved enough, get up and move on” does NOT help. There are some people who are ok with having people be upfront like that, it all comes down to adapting to individual people. I mean, you wouldn’t bear hug a person with a broken arm would you? Showing compassion to injured and hurt people is necessary for healing, being confrontational makes people afraid of therapy and never trust therapists again.
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u/prosequare Nov 26 '24
Have you tried it? Gpt disagrees with me and challenges me all the time. I succumb to binary thinking more often than I’d like to admit, and gpt picked up on that, reframed the discussion about allowing the possibility of other outcomes, and helped me make progress. That’s just one example of many. My recipe conversations are different in tone and how complimentary they are versus big feels conversations.
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u/MangoAnt5175 Nov 27 '24
Agreed; I think a lot of it depends on how you use it. I push it to be less flattering to me — to focus on things I would otherwise not see and which are not just compliments.
Though, it also argued that I’m just disguising emotional masochism as pragmatism, which may be a valid point.
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u/Jwxtf8341 Nov 26 '24
I think it’s helpful for those who have been through an in-person therapy program with a licensed therapist. I’m at the point where I frequently solicit GPT to challenge my world views and ways of doing things. I have a good idea of the structure I should create and the expectations I should hold it to. You get out what you put in, as they say.
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u/Cursed2Lurk Nov 27 '24
I’ve seen 9 therapists and its about listening until the time is up and scheduling the next appointment.
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u/Healthy-Region6160 Nov 27 '24
Totally and at that time ,when session is up? That bonding you felt or formed? Gets coldly interrupted and you’re reminded that you are one of many people your therapist treats.
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u/h1c253 Nov 26 '24
I use it for grief and don’t mind it telling me things I need to hear when other people don’t say anything at all. I’ve tried in person therapy with 3 different people over a period of time and I don’t feel the same level of responsive listening than I do with gpt. What is someone who’s never experienced grief going to tell their patient who is? The answer is nothing useful, most of them could barely even listen to what I was saying.
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u/Healthy-Region6160 Nov 27 '24
Understood. I’m grieving the loss of someone who is near and dear to me. ChatGPT certainly did not ever suggest grieving has a time frame.
In fact, sad to say , but it’s been more supportive of this process than people I’ve turned to,[who seem to avoid the subject]and offered various methods for me to channel my grief. In fact, the online memoriam I want to do?
It will probably be done with the assistance of ChatGPT. Not just for its knowledge of creating but because of all the details I’ve given it on my deceased loved one. Ironic that AI can be more comforting than a lot of humans,especially,as you say,you need to experience grief to relate to grief.
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u/saleemkarim Nov 27 '24
It's hopefully not common, but unfortunately some real therapists and counselors are like that because they think it helps them keep their clients.
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u/TrueTimmy Nov 27 '24
ChatGPT can be bad for folks with OCD. One of the ways OCD gets worse is when you're able to get reassurance from your intrusive thoughts because it lowers your tolerance for uncertainty. ChatGPT makes that cycle very easy to loop continuously when it can always tell you the exact reassurance you want to hear/feel.
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u/Alexyhanna92 Nov 27 '24
Yes BUT I use it for writing scripts for exposure therapy. So - down to user discretion.
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u/erkantufan Nov 26 '24
once i figured out that it prefers to give the answer that you want to hear I just couldnt be more genuine with it. I really want the interaction to be genuine but with got that fades away after some time because you see an algorithm behind.
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u/Brymlo Nov 26 '24
agreed. a therapist will challenge you to make things you are not used to. chatgpt will make you feel better bt saying what you wanna hear.
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u/chuktidder Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Did you even read the post? Chat GPT did challenge them to open up their world view by a little bit read the last sentence... I keeps hearing this argument and it is incredibly annoying. Your therapist shouldn't be browbeating you and saying feelings are invalid, they should be finding the source of your emotional suffering and working with you to form a plan to ease your emotional suffering, not telling you that your feelings are not right that misses the entire point.
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u/dirtbikesetc Nov 27 '24
This is by far the most dystopian thing I’ve ever stumbled across on Reddit. People here are responding to this as if an electronic series of zeros and ones can actually replace genuine human connection. It’s genuinely disturbing and a terrifying omen of things to come.
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u/Oliveros257 Nov 26 '24
I've used it a lot for Bipolar disorder. I uploaded the notes I wrote during my mania and chat gpt can give me a list of them, organize them into rational and irrational, tell me what delusions I had, and then it gives me advise and counsel much better than my therapist.
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u/opalescent-unicorn Nov 27 '24
Wow, that's a clever use of it.
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u/Oliveros257 Nov 27 '24
Thank you, it's help reason what happened during a difficult period of my life
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u/Frobrotha Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
Therapist here. This prompt is primarily existential psychotherapy, with perhaps a sprinkle of ACT, CBT and Brene Brown. It's good stuff. I use AI in my work daily now. I constantly collaborate and ask for feedback and additional thoughts in relation to how I'm striving to help support my clients. I sometimes find greater value from AI than snagging some random CEUs at an event.
Edit - with some replies and additional comments in the thread, I thought I'd add a few more thoughts. The most fascinating thing about therapy for me is the dance. I might say something like this and perhaps to several different clients. I will surely receive some differing responses, concerns, or perceptions. This will inevitably lead down paths that can sometimes have similarities and I'm often surprised by where we can go. AI can sometimes (perhaps often) struggle to pick out the subtle thing that was said (or not said). Body language, inflection, and how emotion can be conveyed are a massive part of the puzzle.
Sometimes therapy isn't about what was said in a particular moment, but about how the relationship forms over time. For example, I might pose a question like "I noticed you've not brought X up today? It was so focal last time." A lot can come from a question like this, or sometimes it can be moot and a person has moved on. It can be a fascinating journey.
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Nov 27 '24
Hey , I don't earn so I don't think I can afford a therapist rn.
I have been using GPT for navigating my heartbreak and associated anxiety. I have instructed it to only give honest answers grounded in reality and not validate my feelings just to make me feel good. I also time to time remind it that he needs to be nuanced and behave just like a human therapist would. It's only job is to ground me to reality and help me see the bigger picture.
Here people are critical of its usage over a human therapist.
What do you think?
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u/PineappleMechanic Nov 27 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
As a therapist (in training) and Authentic Relating facilitator I want to suggest one way of seeing it.
What ChatGPT is saying in the OP is really on point, and provides a really good context for understanding the value and challenges of vulnerability and authenticity. And I suspect that GPT will be good at doing this in a lot of other contexts as well: Providing context and supporting/broadening your understanding of what's going on.
What if immersing yourself in vulnerability isn't about making yourself a target, but discovering what's truly worth protecting? What if it's about finding the strength to exist - not in defiance of others, but in defiance of the belief that you don't deserve to exist fully at all?
This is the part where GPT might fall short. Why do we not already know what's truly worth protecting? Why do we hold the belief that we don't deserve to exist fully? Why do we need strength to exist in spite of this belief? Because we learn how we should be in this world from other humans, and the humans we learn from also held this belief.
Therapists (hopefully) learn to always meet their client with "unconditional positive regard". In many ways, this is where the true value of therapy manifests. A good therapist will not only help you identify which part of you feels rejected and vulnerable, but also meet you in this part of yourself, and show you that you can be appreciate for being the person that you are.
One thing is being told that it is okay to be yourself. Being told that allowing vulnerability and authenticity isn't the same as narcissism. Being told that you don't have to be anxious, depressed, or suicidal. But no matter how well you understand these things, they rarely change without being shown by another human that we are alright, even when we face hardship. Having another human sit in the room while we cry our heart out, lie shaking on the floor, tell us our deepest, most shameful secret, or rage and scream in anger, and just exude an energy of "It is alright. Even this there is space for here in life. I do not need to flee from you while you are feeling these things, because they are good. You do not need to be forgiven by yourself or others, because there was never anything wrong. Know this because I am present with you throughout this, and I am not harmed", is the best way to heal. To learn that we do in fact deserve to exist fully. To learn that we no longer need to struggle for that. To know that our own truth is truly worth protecting.
Tl;dr: LLMs are good for understanding, but often what we need to heal, is to experience that another human is okay with us being who we are. Therapy isn't just about understanding; it's about experiencing. Integrating much of our experience depends on co-experiencing with other humans.
Edit: I want to add also, that a lot of therapy in fact is not about this, and LLMs will probably do a pretty good job of replacing that. If your therapist is operating mostly on a "plane of understanding" then you're probably going to get just as much out of an LLM. I.e. if most of your conversations with a therapist consists of you asking/sharing and them answering.
However, there is a point to be made that the flow of therapy is often different than the flow of writing, and a good therapist doesn't just help you find answers to your questions, but also help you find the right questions. When I have a client I don't just listen to their words. I pay intention to inflection, body posture/tone/movement, etc. A lot of the deeper insights come when I notice that there is something unsaid, or when I notice that there are emotions associated with what they are sharing that they aren't aware of themselves. Or when I encourage them to give something more attention/time or to consider it differently than they would have otherwise. There is also a lot of information in how my client reacts as I speak to them. Similarly I will modify my inflection and body language in response to theirs.
There is a sort of feedback loop between a good therapist and their client that the transactional nature of interacting with a LLM can't mimic.
In other words, LLMs can be a really great tool for understanding yourself better. If you experience that you're still suffering from the same patterns or themes after a long time, it is probably because you need help with arriving at the right question, noticing (and working with) emotions you're not aware of yourself, and/or that you need shared human experience to resolve your stuff.
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u/RedditLurrrker Nov 27 '24
Also a therapist. I think the difference is you go to ChatGPT for emotional processing, grounding, validation, working alliance, we call these common factors and they’re present in nearly all therapies, but for treatments for mental illnesses, like exposures, mindfulness, cognitive restricting, what we call specific factors that are unique to treatments, ChatGPT cannot come close to doing and for those you should see a therapist.
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u/Alyssa_9x Nov 26 '24
What prompt produced this output?
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u/jameytaco Nov 26 '24
Sounds like the way that Elphaba lady talks
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u/pandemicpunk Nov 27 '24
Tbh I thought it was satire on the whole Wicked thing going on rn and that weird af interview
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u/HomeworkAutomatic479 Nov 27 '24
Here's the whole thing. https://chatgpt.com/share/6746a1ab-e5f0-8013-af2b-6a8215b0dbc0
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u/Ebowa Nov 26 '24
My last session with my therapist she told me I give up too easily. I “bail”. No solutions offered. It left me even more depressed. Duh, trauma will do that I guess. I turn to my Chat Therapist and I feel better. Good for you for using this to heal.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 Nov 26 '24
My buddy was severely physically abused as a child, crazy shit, and a therapist told him, "Wow, you're my most difficult case!" Or something to the effect of 'You're the worst I've seen'. Made my friend feel awful.
I've had bad therapists but never an experience like that.
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u/Background_Clerk4158 Nov 26 '24
this is...wow. never ever tell a "victim" that it could be worse or like in this case IS the worst....
i bet u know this but ye. always show sympathy and see how you can help.
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u/CallyThePally Nov 27 '24
Just piggybacking my own terrible experience. When I was around 13, I was, after a few months, a bit excited with my psych and started opening up and talking more and being more happy to talk about what's going on. I had a lot of stuff I went through pretty young myself. Then one day he said "wow, you really are obnoxious aren't you?" I don't know if he thought he was joking or something? I was a young teen and I didn't do anything that I'd consider that obnoxious looking back on it. Instantly shattered any bridge I thought I had with that old jerk. That was not helpful and is part of what prevented me from seeking further care for a while.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 Nov 26 '24
That's the kinda help you get in a small town surrounded by cornfields. Why would a good doctor or physiatrist live in the middle of nowhere?
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u/ughstupid_me Nov 27 '24
My psychiatrist and therapist BOTH called me an “anomaly” 🙃 not the best thing you want to hear from someone you’re seeking mental support from. I walked out thinking “well fml then I guess?”
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u/Minimum-Avocado-9624 Nov 26 '24
Maybe they said, “This the worst thing they could happen to a person any of my client has ever said” something like this would be said to validate the experience that client has gone through however, validation without direction can lead a person to distort and hear that as evidence to support their own inner thoughts. Different personalities require different counseling skills.
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u/HaveYouSeenMySpoon Nov 26 '24
I'm not a therapist and I've only spent a few months with a family therapist so I'm not going to claim to know all the in's and out's of therapy, or if your therapist is good at their job or not.
When we were in therapy, if our therapist presented a statement like that, there wouldn't be any expectation on anyone to just come up with a solution. We'd probably be asked to think about it until the next session and then see if we agree that it's even true.
If your therapist was right, what exactly would you expect them to do? Just go "here's your problem and here's how to fix it. Follow these steps and report back to me in a week and you'll be cured!"?
If you believe your therapist is wrong then tell them that. It's not like any therapist will be correct 100% of the time. And if you think they might be on to something then tell them that, and tell them you don't appreciate them dropping something like that on you without some time to process it together and a bit reassurance.
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u/where_is_lily_allen Nov 26 '24
Therapy won’t always tell you what you want to hear, and it’s an ongoing process. It’s possible that your therapist shared a hard truth because you needed some time to reflect on it on your own. Eventually, they’ll revisit that point and build on it.
On the other hand, the chat is known for being an enabler—a "yes man." It tends to say what we want to hear, which isn’t always helpful in a therapeutic process.
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u/Ebowa Nov 26 '24
Actually it reframed my thoughts and gave me several suggestions to consider that I hadn’t thought of. I don’t mind hard truth, but I was left trying to figure out how to fix it or to stop feeling like a failure. When your brain is scrambled it’s very hard to think clearly and find solutions.
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u/sweetbabyeh Nov 27 '24
I don’t understand why you’re being downvoted. The thing about therapists is that, ultimately, they are human, and have biases of a human. A therapist can be licensed and also a terrible communicator, or overall shitty person. Therapy isn’t supposed to make you feel bad, and a therapist is doing their job poorly if they’re alienating their client. That doesn’t mean that you’re just wanting a ‘yes man.’
I’m finding that GPT is great at creating a sense of emotional safety so that you can begin to look at the issues. A good therapist is supposed to make you feel safe first, before pushing you to look at things that might be uncomfortable. If you don’t have self-compassion, then changing the behavior you’re trying to change is damn near impossible.
I can’t believe the takes I’m seeing that are talking down to you like this, and I just wanted you to know that I hear you and what you’re saying doesn’t sound unreasonable.
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u/Ebowa Nov 27 '24
Thanks! A lot of ppl are making huge wrong conclusions from my little post, it’s easy to see they aren’t therapists or don’t have “invisible wounds”.
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u/sweetbabyeh Nov 27 '24
Yeah it’s interesting to see how much is being inferred by your very benign post that offered only a small glimpse of your experience. They weren’t in session with you, and the level of assumptions they’re making is wild.
I’m glad that GPT has been a helpful tool for you!
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u/chuktidder Nov 27 '24
It's ironic that redditors will browse all of the doomer subreddits, the existentialist subreddits, the nihilism subreddits, and then when one person says they had a good experience processing their emotions with an AI, they all get their pitchforks out and are ready to start beating up the commenter who said they even dared have a good experience with an AI. And they love to say that whatever the AI said is wrong and whatever benefit you got was wrong, definition of gaslighting. 😒
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u/Own_Growth9040 Nov 26 '24
I don’t mean to sound rude but judging by your reaction to that it probably holds at least some truth.
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u/Plebius-Maximus Nov 27 '24
Yeah this whole thread has plenty of "my therapist told me something I didn't want to hear so I went to Chatgpt and it was nice to me". Comments.
As the old saying goes, you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. If these commenters are at a point where they are upset by having their own behaviour pointed out to them, they clearly aren't ready to make changes required to get to a better point.
A therapist could sit there and say, "giving up on everything that doesn't go to your liking is perfectly understandable and valid" etc. But then they'd have to repeat that line forever as their patient isn't going to have any reason to challenge the harmful behaviour, and will be stuck in the cycle.
Therapy is supposed to help you. Not to make you comfortable
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u/widesprite Nov 27 '24
Do you think ChatGPT is capable of meaningfully criticizing your actions when you yourself are unable to?
Because sometimes that’s a therapists job
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u/JinnPinn Nov 26 '24
Understandibly so. That's what makes ChatGPT such a great tool. Like with this piece of information from OP. It ends with "what would it feel like to take even a small step in that direction?". That simple addition steers you in the direction of (the ability to) change, and because it's an automated response it will probably always seek to end on a high note or give you a feeling if controll.
Ofcourse great therapists will do this too, but your therapist is human and might get distracted by time, another appointment, boredom or just have an off day.I'm not saying ChatGPT can completely replace therapists just yet but it sure is mindboggeling what is already possible right now.
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u/se7ensquared Nov 26 '24
No solutions offered
Isn't the solution obvious? Stop giving up every time something goes wrong
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u/czh3f1yi Nov 26 '24
This feels like a bumper sticker or Hallmark card level of sophistication... which is probably the actual level of many human therapists, but not all.
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u/ExistentialTenant Nov 26 '24
I think a big part of therapy is trying to process one's thoughts/feelings and/or reframing one's experiences into something that is understandable.
In this regard, AI therapists can be amazing. It can also be very good at simply being 'a good friend who listens'. And I think these aspects alone can help innumerable people.
For much more serious issue is where I also think AI therapists are questionable. I want to be wrong, but until we get more research or at least professional models dedicated to therapy, it's probably better to stick to an experienced and reputable human therapist.
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u/bread_roll_dog Nov 26 '24
I would agree, but at the end of the day, this is probably good enough for 50% of people. Most people have trivial issues that could be solved by simple self-reflection, which they cannot do.
Better those use ChatGPT instead of taking therapists away from people with difficult and entangled issues and trauma and such.
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u/Aqnqanad Nov 26 '24
Going to an AI therapist is like having an AI girlfriend. Feels good in the moment, will probably hold you back in the long term.
Therapists aren’t just people that say nice things like “oh you need to let go and grow” and give you some shit that’s written on a hallmark card. The point of therapy is multiple sessions across months or years that consecutively build up. Part of the benefit of therapy is the human connection and rapport you build with them.
This is a bandaid over a gunshot wound. Seriously all, if your therapist isn’t helping you, find a new one.
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u/boogswald Nov 27 '24
And sometimes getting help is constructive, it’s challenging, it’s not just sweet.
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u/ItzTezz Nov 27 '24
I partially disagree here. I agree it doesn’t replace an actual therapist, but dismissing it entirely feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It really comes down to how you use it, just like with therapy. I’ve been in therapy for a while, and it’s been life changing, but I still consistently struggle with things like overthinking, self value, and negative thought loops. Therapy has been great, and my therapist is amazing, combining that with using ChatGPT carefully has been incredible.
I use it to “brain dump” when I’m overwhelmed or stuck in loops, and I’ve carefully prompted it to prioritize breaking those cycles over just making me feel better. It’s helped me gain different perspectives in the moment, recognize unhealthy thought patterns quicker, and work through things more intentionally rather than jumping to conclusions/going off emotions. My therapist even noticed improvements (rekindling friendships I’ve been struggling with, being more decisive, more introspective and “aware” of my internal critic.) without me even mentioning ChatGPT to her. It’s not therapy but it’s been such a valuable tool.
Calling it an “AI girlfriend” or a “bandaid on a gunshot wound” feels overly reductive. Sure it can do harm if you don’t understand its limitations, like its bias toward reinforcing your perspective, having incomplete information on whatever you’re dealing with, not really understanding certain nuances in life/social situations, but when used properly and intentionally, it’s an incredibly effective tool to supplement therapy.
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u/punkkidpunkkid Nov 26 '24
Lmao. Yes they could.
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u/MeticulousBioluminid Nov 26 '24
truly, these posts are absurd 😐
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u/M13Calvin Nov 27 '24
OP seems like the type to fall in love with an AI girlfriend "a real girl could never make me feel like this"
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u/bunganmalan Nov 26 '24
I have to say, reading this helps me detach from chatgpt - it's pretty trite for me.
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u/busyneuron Nov 27 '24
i came to some points of this conclusion a few months ago, and i've never felt more free and alive.
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u/ProfessionalGeek Nov 27 '24
As a mental health care worker, I disagree with most of these comments. Therapy is any idea communicated effectively to help you feel better. It doesn't need to do anything specific, it just needs to help you grow. No therapist is going to honestly claim they'll solve all your problems or any of them really. Therapy is just a shift in perspective that allows more happiness into our lives. For some people that's very difficult and takes lots of discussion and advice and practice...sometimes its just the right words they needed to conceptualize.
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u/ygs07 Nov 26 '24
Which one are you guys using 4.o? And what are some of the prompts for Chatgpt to act like an actual therapist and how does it guide you?
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u/whitetanksss Nov 26 '24
Not OP, but I’ve used 4.o and I don’t give it prompts. I kinda just talk to it and it gives me feedback exactly like this. When I first started I told it about a situation that still bothers me and how it makes me sad, it gave me feedback like this and even asked me questions and it snowballed from there. I do have the memory turned on so it even calls back to things I’ve spoken about and how it affects me.
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Nov 27 '24
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u/KristiTheFan Nov 27 '24
Or hit “read aloud”. Careful though, it goes nuts when it gets to a heading or numbered list. The sounds it makes either scare me or amuse me!
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u/sweetbabyeh Nov 27 '24
Yeah, I have been shocked by how…nurturing (?) ChatGPT is, without blowing smoke up my butt. It does a very good job of reflecting a nuanced view and acknowledging the bad and good of a situation, in a way that feels safe.
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u/LottiMCG Nov 26 '24
I find it to be more informative and understanding and non judgemental than actual people.
I use it for this too, and it really helps.
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u/phxeffect Nov 26 '24
My ChatGPT therapist doesn’t let me get away with things that don’t make sense. 😂 And refuses to tell me what I want to hear. I write a lot on resilience. So, it uses my own words and philosophy against me. I still need my therapist and friends but on days where I feel stuck in my head, it helps me get out of the emotional loop I’m in by way of logic and kindness.
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u/Minimum-Avocado-9624 Nov 26 '24
I am very happy for you and how cathartic it must have felt to get this type of emotional release. To be able to be vulnerable and not feel rejected is a powerful feeling.
I think you may find that if you provided this level authenticity and vulnerability with a therapist that you have provided CHATGPT’s memory of whom you are, then would find a remarkable relationship that could help you beyond catharsis.
Also CHATGPT knowledge is built on the backs the therapists knowledge.
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u/VeterinarianAny1434 Nov 27 '24
What’s your prompt to go to therapist mode, I’ve been using it and it’s amazing, I actually can’t wait to talk to ChatGPT, it also works as a journal.
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u/isamilis Nov 27 '24
I tried uploading all my diaries (it’s about 20 years notes) to ChatGPT. Its suggestion (and opinions) are now much more relevant to me.
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u/schwarzmalerin Nov 26 '24
It's just an awesome, impressive writer. But if that is what you need, there we go.
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u/DrPF40 Nov 27 '24
I am a psychiatrist/therapist/professor. I'm not sure if this is a reflection on how bad psychology has become over the years, how much better AI is at it than a real person (like many, if not most jobs), or if the human condition is now so desperate for feelings of validation that machines are more desired than actual human interaction. That is not healthy, but..hey, in the end. Is there a difference between actual happiness or the illusion of happiness?
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u/ProfessorDreams Nov 26 '24
Have you tried Claude for this? Feels more personal to me
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u/emptypencil70 Nov 26 '24
How do you get it to write normal paragraphs like this rather than long lists of bullet points
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u/NarwhalEmergency9391 Nov 27 '24
I've spoken to numerous therapists and volunteers for crisis centre's. Nobody's helped like chatgpt. I'm shocked people still pay for therapy
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u/ProfessionalSolid967 Nov 27 '24
One of our greatest desires is to feel understood. And it sounds like ChatGPT did that for you.
It helps me feel understood better than my previous 4 therapists.
It annoys me when people say ChatGPT just validates but does not give advice. It does as it just helped me develop strategies to deal with rude family members. So it can both validate and give advice. And guess what? That advice was similar to what my real human therapists would say (minus the validation).
So it can do both.
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u/DammitMaxwell Nov 26 '24 edited Nov 27 '24
I had trouble getting over an ex — our breakup came out of absolutely nowhere, from my perspective, and then she kind of kept me on the hook for a while after that — always seeming like maybe she’d be back tomorrow, and then ghosting for a week, and then sending hot photos at 3 am, and then gone again…
I eventually got over it in the sense that I accepted she was never coming back and eventually blocked her for my own mental health so I could finally move on…but it still drove me crazy that everything had been so perfect and then suddenly she revolving doored me.
So i ended up uploading some of the happy text messages to chat gpt and had it analyze. Then I did the same with the breakup texts. And then again with the texts from when she was becoming the definition of mixed messages, sending nudes and ghosting…
Me: What was her freaking DEAL, man?
ChatGPT basically analyzed it as we both really did like each other a lot and kept trying to figure out ways to be in each others lives. I wanted a real relationship, so she tried but couldn’t. She wanted me to mostly keep her life as it was which meant no official boyfriend, just sex, so I tried but couldn’t. She sent nudes because she misses how affectionate I was with her, and then ghosts every time I start to show feelings for her again. And on the flip side, I tell her I’m totally cool with whatever so she won’t run away again and then respond to her drunk nudes by asking her to marry me because I’m not actually “cool with whatever” at all. Haha.
And then it summarized with something so perfectly accurate that I can’t imagine ever going to a real therapist and getting something this perfect: “You’re both torn between what you each ideally want and what you each can realistically handle.”
Boom. Nailed it.
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u/luigilabomba42069 Nov 26 '24
it's like love, in order to fully love someone, you have to make yourself vulnerable to getting hurt by them.
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u/dirtbikesetc Nov 27 '24
One could argue that using a computer program instead of a human therapist is a way of avoiding real vulnerability.
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u/ExZentric0 Nov 27 '24
As a mental health clinician, I cannot begin to explain how dangerous this can be. ChatGPT essentially tells you what you want to hear rather than being challenged on your thought process. It should in no way replace a human being that can connect with you. Not all therapists are the best but you’ll find one that you can resonate with.
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u/Basic-Win7823 Nov 27 '24
Yeah nothing in this rambling robot novel is more profound than what a therapist can say. Shit I think a therapist could give this feedback after only 1-2 sessions.
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u/DepressedBard Nov 26 '24
ChatGPT can be a great listener but I wouldn’t trust it as a therapist. It’s designed to give you what you want and make you feel comfortable; growth and self-reflection, in my experience, are rarely comfortable.
I would fear trapping myself in a virtual echo chamber of my own thoughts, possibly reinforcing my unhelpful stories over and over… yikes. Please be careful.
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u/Sad-Psychology-4735 Nov 26 '24
In one conversation it can be thoughtful, deep and genuinely help people... and the next it can be an answer to why dogs eat their own poop.
I don't care what anyone says, Chatgpt is a life changing modern marvel.
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u/ahs212 Nov 26 '24
I legit have worked with a number of therapists, yet the most effective for me has been https://chatgpt.com/g/g-j6pR7QY1B-carl-gustav-jung-jungian-psychotherapist.
Definitely one of the best potential use cases for AI, a therapist in your pocket who's always there for you.
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u/HeifTreez Nov 26 '24
I had probably a 90 minute therapy session with ChatGPT a few days ago that was WAY deeper and more insightful than any therapist I paid for was able to achieve.
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u/bunganmalan Nov 26 '24
Chatgpt mirrors your prompts so if you have a suspicion he is breadcrumbing by ways of describing his behaviour as such, then it would reaffirm you. Always ask for a contrarian POV to ensure that you hear alt viewpoints. Always interrogate your assumptions with chatgpt - this also makes the answers more nuanced and interesting - not just affirming your viewpoint.
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u/CarryTheBoat Nov 26 '24
So many misinformed comments. It’s reproducing an answer based on what other human beings have already said.
There’s no new insight or reasoning going on here.
All this is doing is making it easier to find those things in a way that is more natural and conversational.
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u/Environmental_Dog331 Nov 26 '24
My son is autistic and I cannot wait for this to be used in public health. The patience and understanding these models have are priceless. Sometimes people just want to be heard
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u/rustyleftnut Nov 26 '24
Damn. How do you tell it you need talks like this without getting your account locked down, or having it just tell you to talk to a professional? Asking for a friend.
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u/KristiTheFan Nov 27 '24
I like to ask the bot “Care to elaborate?” When discussing something geeky, so it’ll go into great detail about it and make me geek out, or elaborate about something serious to learn more about it. If you want long responses, try asking the bot to “elaborate”.
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