r/ChatGPT Jun 02 '24

What are your thoughts on the following statement? Other

Post image
6.0k Upvotes

View all comments

32

u/duckrollin Jun 02 '24

Science doesn't work that way, it's not a tech tree in a game of civilisation where you pick one thing to research at a time, and we're not going to ban all research into AI just because a vocal minority wants to feel special and doesn't like that computers can do similar things to them now.

That's like banning research into the printing press so that scribes can be the only ones able to copy books.

21

u/m_reigl Jun 02 '24

I do not believe that this is what Ms. Maciejewska advocates for. The problem here is not AI, it's that artists (and, by extension, all of us) need money so they can eat. The solution is either for artists to find other careers, or to solve their dependency on selling art for money.

Of those two solutions, I would find number one to be worse. I wish to live in a world where artists can devote themselves to their craft full-time without living in precarious conditions, because that is a world where we get large amounts of great art.

Therefore, the second solution: a fundamental change in our economic system, so that people can be provided for without the need for wage labour.

1

u/gakezfus Jun 03 '24

The solution is either for artists to find other careers

That's what happened for the other jobs automatons made obsolete. It wasn't so bad for the world. Why would this be that different?

5

u/m_reigl Jun 03 '24

Firstly, I've already laid out why I want artists to continue to be able to live off full-time art.

Secondly, I take issue with the fact that prior automation wasn't so bad for the world: the fact that work that previously needed highly skilled labourers to be performed now could be done by a simple machine operator massively weakened the position of the workers in comparison to the factory owners, thus enabling many of the exploitative practices you see up to today. Luddism didn't come from nowhere - people saw that these new technologies massively decreased their quality of life and thus they opposed them.

-1

u/gakezfus Jun 03 '24 edited Jun 03 '24

Is our quality of life increased today compared to before the automation technologies? I don't think it's any question that it's yes.

There are winners and losers with tech, but all of the automation technology so far has been beneficial to society as a whole, hasn't?

If we still had to depend on a few highly skilled labourers, we could never be providing all the goods and products that our billions want and need.

3

u/m_reigl Jun 03 '24

Certainly, quality of life has increased massively thanks to automation, and it could do once more with AI. I do not argue to halt technological progress in it's step.

I argue that a technological revolution can serve the interests of either the working or the owning class, and we should ensure that the former comes out on top. Because if we are not careful, AI can easily reproduce and even exacerbate the problems and inequalities capitalism already has.

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '24

Entitled people gonna entitle

0

u/_alright_then_ Jun 03 '24

Therefore, the second solution: a fundamental change in our economic system, so that people can be provided for without the need for wage labour.

I'm so tired of this argument. Get over it, this is not happening in any of our lifetimes, or in the next 10 generations. People are greedy and wage labour will absolutely never go away until we have a way to automate everything, which we don't.

3

u/m_reigl Jun 03 '24

Ah yes, any attempt to change our fundamental material conditions is inherently pointless, so we shouldn't even try. Call me an idealist, but I am unconvinced by your reasoning.

1

u/_alright_then_ Jun 03 '24

As long as greedy people are at the top UBI is not happening, they will use AI and other automation to line their own pockets. Show me any time in history when greedy people were not at the top and I might change my mind

1

u/Odd_Science Jun 03 '24

That's why you start chopping off heads until the remaining people in power understand the benefits of social welfare. Yes, that has been done before.

-6

u/Defiant_Breakfast201 Jun 03 '24

If the artists are getting outcompeted by AI, doesn't that necessarily mean that the AI would be doing a better job at creating "large amounts of great art"?

And why do we think that artists will not just be empowered by AI to create more and greater art themselves? Should we also ban digital art tools so that artists are forced to use more labor intensive paint-based art creation methods?

3

u/Lena-Luthor Jun 03 '24

why should we have sit down restaurants when the McDonald's drive through makes food faster and cheaper?

1

u/Beautiful-Attempt-94 Jun 09 '24

That's a good point, the good sit down restaurants are forced to offer something more than the cheap McDonald's to compete Same with the artists. The good ones that actually have something to offer will do good.

AI is not going to put a ban on artists it'll just give them competition

0

u/Defiant_Breakfast201 Jun 03 '24

What point are you trying to make? In that scenario AI would not be outcompeting actual artists. Which is not what the person I responded to said would happen.

-1

u/TawnyTeaTowel Jun 03 '24

And we have both. I’m not sure this is the point you wanted to make.

0

u/Lena-Luthor Jun 03 '24

I'm pointing out the terrible reason in the previous comment. it's obviously sarcasm

1

u/Odd_Science Jun 03 '24

As humans, many of us understand art to not be just about the product but also about the process. But if being able to do the process depends on selling the product (yes, the idea of the starving artist is very romantic, but it's not actually that great for the artist), then taking away the commercially viable part of art and delegating it to machines destroys human art.

Yes, there will still be people who are independently rich and able to dedicate themselves to artistic pursuits. And others will be able to dabble in artistic endeavours in their free time. But that is nothing compared to having the possibility for people to be full-time (or significant part-time) artists as is currently possible, even if already difficult.

0

u/Defiant_Breakfast201 Jun 03 '24

So can you answer the question I posed?

1

u/Odd_Science Jun 03 '24

Yes, people can use technology, including AI, to make art. But that doesn't change the effect of AI on art as a commercially viable product, so it isn't really relevant to the discussion.

1

u/Defiant_Breakfast201 Jun 03 '24

I think it does change that. It makes it easier for an artist to produce more art and at a higher standard of quality, so they can actually be more productive with the use of technology and reap additional profits from that extra productivity. Using photoshop for art is exactly the same as AI art.

The difference is that people who want things like comissions are actually empowered through AI to make their OWN art, themselves, rather than havingt to depend on someone with specialized rendering skills to show their idea. The result is more and broader access to artistic creation - and even more avilability to those without the means to pay specialized artists.

1

u/sadacal Jun 02 '24

No one chooses to copy books for their entire life, they do it as a job so they can make money and live. People who have no monetary restrictions will choose to pursue art or writing because it fulfills our basic human desire for creativity.