r/CapitolConsequences • u/graneflatsis ironically unironic • Sep 22 '22
Secret Service knew of neo-Nazi threat on Jan. 6 Investigation
https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/secret-service-knew-of-neo-nazi-threat-on-jan-6/474
u/Chippopotanuse Sep 22 '22
The Secret Service was tracking at least one neo-Nazi group and multiple individuals that planned to engage in violence and occupy the Capitol building more than a week before the January 6th insurrection, according to documents obtained by CREW. The documents do not show the agency taking action to prevent violence on the 6th.
So why didn’t the SS do anything about it?
Next thing you’re gonna tell me is the Secret Service “accidentally” lost all of their cell phone data for the time period involving Jan 6 in some obvious-but-sloppy attempt to cover up their crimes against the country.
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Sep 22 '22
Because they're partial to the original SS
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u/gurgle528 Sep 22 '22
They predate the Nazis, but the they do have ties to the Pinkertons! (Ties might be a strong word)
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Sep 22 '22
[deleted]
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u/Mirhanda Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22
It certainly is shocking. I, as a bona fide old person, had always thought the ethics of the Secret Service were impeccable. I really dislike how things are going now. I hope we can root out all the rot, in the SS, the FBI, the CIA and even local PDs.
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u/L0hkiii Sep 23 '22
I apologise for the unfortunate wakeup call, but the psychology of anyone who enters law enforcement is that of your high school bully.
There is a reason people say "ACAB", and it's not to call out one individual officer. The system is broken, every cop absolutely has looked the other way at least once (we've all had bad days at work where we just couldn't do "That Thing" today, but for cops "That Thing I Don't Want To Do" is report a colleague you've worked alongside for 10 years and currently and actively trust with your life) and we need a different system built ground up that attracts different personalities.
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u/Mirhanda Sep 23 '22
Yeah, it's becoming obvious. I mean yeah, I knew regular cops are corrupt bullies, but the FBI and the Secret Service have better PR, and I guess I fell for it. (The X-Files and Criminal Minds didn't hurt either!) But yeah, I'm no longer such a sucker.
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u/BrewerBeer Sep 23 '22
I am from the south and so knew white supremacists had infiltrated local positions, though we never knew who was who, just that they were around. The secret service though, this really cuts deeply. They must've thought they were going to get away with it too, they didn't even have a decent cover story ready.
You're better off assuming that anyone in a law enforcement position is likely to be corrupt and be surprised by a lack of corruption than the other way around.
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u/RowanIsBae Sep 22 '22
So why didn’t the SS do anything about it?
It's pretty cut and dry imo
Cassidy Hutchinson testified about Tony Ornato.
Anthony M. Ornato is the former assistant director of the United States Secret Service Office of Training. He was the service's deputy assistant director who headed the security detail of president Donald Trump until taking a leave of absence when the president named him White House Deputy Chief of Staff for operations in December 2019.
After his tenure as a political appointee in the Trump administration, he returned to the Secret Service where he worked as the assistant director in the office of training until August 29, 2022
Then the Director, James Murray? Jan 6 committee subpoenad him for the missing texts.
You may recognize his name from the news stories when he abruptly left the secret service after that for a security role at Snapchat.
Then we also know Biden redid a lot of his protection detail.
The secret service was being ran by trump appointed loyalists who covered for the plan to shelter pence against his will to enable the overthrow of our government.
On July 7, 2022, Murray announced his retirement as Secret Service Director, to take effect July 30, 2022. Murray will take the role of Chief Security Officer at Snap Inc., parent company of Snapchat, on August 1, 2022.
However, he announced on July 28, 2022 that he will "briefly" delay his retirement, in connection with the investigation into missing Secret Service records
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u/LaphroaigianSlip81 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22
So why didn’t the SS do anything about it?
2 possible reasons.
1) they constantly know about dozens and dozens of threats that never pan out and didn’t think this one would as well. Also, how much did they know? Like was it hey there might be some racist people hanging out at the capital building or there will be a full Reichstag burning. If it was the first then sure the normal security measures should suffice.
An example of the first scenario would be 9/11. A lot of the intel agencies in the US gov knew about various players and their movements in the lead up to the attack. They had received reports and even had intel about some of the hijackers taking flight lessons. The problem is that none of the agencies had the entire picture an didn’t know how substantial the threat was.
It’s easy to point blame in hindsight. But think about how many tips and how much intel the secret service gets on a daily basis that turns out to be crap. Just because some part of the secret service had intel doesn’t mean that it was handled correctly, distributed, or was good enough to warrant calling in the Calvary.
But if it comes out that the SS did know exactly what was going to happen, had good intel, but ignored everything because they wanted it to happen, then holy shit!
2) they knew about it and didn’t care/ wanted trump to stay in power.
I think it’s probably some combo of both. Some upper level people knew how bad it would be and intentionally ignored taking steps while if other people had known how bad it actually would have been, they would have taken steps. Like the agent that shot Ashley Babbitt and people within the secret service that actually care about preserving justice and fulfilling the role of the agency would have taken measures if they had the info and ability to do so. The people that lost text messages and are part of the cult, not so much. There needs to be a witch hunt to get these radicals out of public service and law enforcement so shit like this can’t be enabled when good intel is available.
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u/Evergreen_76 Sep 22 '22
To summarize:
Either negligence and incompetence or they where accomplices
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u/Conker1985 Sep 23 '22
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt... except Tony Ontario is a MAGAt insider, a few agents tried to aid the coup (attempting to remove Mike Pence), and the fact that they purged their phones after the J6 committee asked for an information relevant to that day, leads me to believe there was malicious intent.
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u/JestaKilla Sep 22 '22
I think the most likely explanation is that they are loyal to the President and he ordered them to stand down and stand by.
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u/ParkSidePat Sep 22 '22
That is as damning as any other explanation. Their oath is the the US Constitution, not any individual POTUS. If they chose Trump over the USA and knowingly allowed these events they should all be facing charges for at least dereliction of duty and probably treason for some of them.
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u/LaphroaigianSlip81 Sep 22 '22
I agree. Just would like to see what intel they actually used to base their decisions on before making that accusation though. Deleting texts is not very reassuring…
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u/Grandpa_No Sep 22 '22
It seems unhealthy to be conspiratorial when there's so much misinformation floating around but.. it does seem as though we're in need of some deeper investigation into the USSS.
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u/theendisneah Sep 22 '22
It's pretty common knowledge trump surrounded himself with the loyal. The SS surrounding him were there for him not the USA. So much so, that Biden had to have many removed from his detail. If you think that is a conspiracy, then wait until you hear about this deep state stuff they are running with..
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u/PurpleSailor AuntieFa Sep 22 '22
if I recall correctly he had to replace them all and I don't blame him.
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u/ParkSidePat Sep 22 '22
No offense but that's doubtful. By the time he took office in 2021 Biden had already been guarded by the USSS for 12 years. No doubt some of those agents he genuinely trusted, no matter how much he may have doubted others or USSS management. Even major candidates get SS details long before election day and departing former POTUS keep SS details for life so nobody comes into office with the exact same SS staff as the person before them. I would expect Biden would keep his core / long time agents and probably have them screen, hire & fire others as needed.
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u/Evergreen_76 Sep 22 '22
Its also common knowledge that law enforcement/intelligence are extremely politically partisan and sympathetic to rightwing extremist and far right religious groups.
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u/Conker1985 Sep 23 '22
Exactly. Flip this entire reality around with Obama and the Democrats doing the same, and he would've already been hung, and Pelosi would've been on the other end of the firing squad.
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u/musingsandthesuch Sep 23 '22
That’s the worst part about all of this. Many of these undemocratic and insurrectionist actions are truly destructive to the long-term stability of the republic but people over look it because they agree with the offender’s current politics and/or identify with them. I wish people would be more discerning rather than zero-sum.
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u/Ex-maven Justice alleviates a guilty mind Sep 22 '22
I read that previous commenter's comment as sarcastic rather than conspiratorial. The US SS did indeed claim to have "lost" a lot of cell phone data relevant to that time period. They claimed it was due to a preplanned (but contrary to federal rules) wipe of select devices.
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u/nobodyspersonalchef Sep 22 '22
Which every I.T. admin will tell you, doesn't occur without someone's credentials approving or executing the task. Sure, the texts can be wiped, but the record of who and when they wiped them, can't.
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u/NDaveT Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22
Could be incompetence, could be malice. I think either explanation is equally likely.
Obviously neo-Nazis posed no threat to the president but they posed a threat to the vice president and the speaker of the house.
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u/Ok-Corner-8547 Sep 23 '22
or to quote Herr Trump, when he tried to have the magnetometers removed to allow weapons into his incitement rally : "they're not here to hurt ME!"
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u/flattop100 Sep 22 '22
FYI, the lost Secret Service texts were recovered and handed over to the Jan 6 Committee.
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u/ZagratheWolf Sep 22 '22
Do you have a source for that I can read?
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u/stupidsuburbs3 Sep 22 '22
I second that request. Committee has been cagey about what was recovered. I don’t think anything has claimed all the texts were recovered.
I’d dance a jig if wrong though. And I’m generally a jig hater :/
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u/mdp300 Sep 22 '22
Well they're doing another hearing next week, hopefully they'll talk about any new findings then.
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u/flattop100 Sep 22 '22
I thought I saw it in WaPo, but am past my article limit for the month. Here's Axios: https://www.axios.com/2022/09/14/jan-6-panel-secret-service-texts-records
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u/OtterProper Sep 22 '22
Use a VPN or "private" mode. Hell, if you wanna browse like a boss, search for uBlock Origin on github (not any app store, ofc). Win.
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u/Sasselhoff Sep 23 '22
The other side: Secret Service spokesperson Anthony Guglielmi told Axios that they "continue to fully cooperate with the January 6 Select committee," but "no additional text messages were recovered."
Instead, he said, the agency provided the panel "a significant level of detail from emails, radio transmissions, Microsoft Teams chat messages and exhibits that address aspects of planning, operations and communications surrounding January 6th."
Looks to me the texts were not recovered. They got lots of other things, but those texts, where I belive the most incriminating things would be, are gone.
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u/thatguywhoreddit Sep 22 '22
I mean they literally announced it on the internet, Trump endorsed it on TV.
If the secret service didn't know, maybe we should think about replacing them with like 4 or 5 redditors.
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u/the_simurgh Sep 22 '22
i literally reported it a week and a half before the sixth.
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u/Shifuede Sep 22 '22
Clock-blocked
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u/the_simurgh Sep 23 '22
i live in a heavy republican area about two weeks before the sixth. the people around here were talking about the trump rally on the sixth like it was the opening of the new civil war. many of them when they were making their trump rally trip preparations were including guns. that's when i knew something was wrong.
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u/OtterProper Sep 22 '22
Welcome to Reddit.
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u/the_simurgh Sep 23 '22
when i mentioned it on reddit two weeks before the sixth i was downvoted all to hell and called paranoid. and that was on a anti trump subreddit.
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u/delusiongenerator Sep 22 '22
I’m willing to bet that some of them even knew the secret handshake
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u/stupidsuburbs3 Sep 22 '22
Lol. Jessica Watkins was spouting off that SS coordinated with her on 1/6. Her lawyer immediately was like nah no, she made that up.
But then the fact remained, some kitted up weirdo was allowed in the vip area near where trump would be while her purported protectee (roger stone) was not. Why would SS allow her anywhere near the president?
We know, from Newsweek and others, that Watkins at first claimed that she “met” with Secret Service agents in the VIP area at Trump’s Ellipse speech, then later amended her claim to say, through her attorney, that she merely “encountered” Secret Service as she was being ushered into the VIP area. The difference between the two remains unclear, however, as Watkins admits she communicated with Secret Service agents long enough to be “given directives about things she could and could not do [in the VIP area], including directions to leave all tactical gear outside of the VIP area.”
https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/breaking-news-new-information-further
Newsweek article with the public defender denial and more details.
https://www.newsweek.com/oath-keepers-jessica-watkins-secret-service-changes-story-1571224 Watkins makes shit up; someone here pointed out her military service exaggerations. So I wouldn’t take her word as proof. But it’s always stuck out in my brain after all the shit coming out about Ornato and DHS.
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Sep 22 '22
VOTE BLUE!
If the republicans take back any majority this November, any real justice for the attempted coup on Jan. 6, or any meaningful change that could result from it, will be stopped cold.
The only way we can start rooting out all of the traitors, fascists and racists is by enacting meaningful legislation to do so! Republicans are working very hard to intimidate you and suppress voting BECAUSE YOUR VOICE MATTERS !
Volunteer for Democratic candidates! Help your friends and loved ones get registered and get them to the polls! VOTE OUT THE REPUBLICANS BECAUSE OUR LIVES DEPEND ON IT!!
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u/inkswamp Sep 22 '22
This is really scary because Dem voters largely tend to sit the mid-terms out. I have no idea why that is but historically, it’s just one of those things in politics you can count on. I hope like hell this time around is different.
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u/Mirhanda Sep 22 '22
I think a lot of us are fired up this time around after they threw out Roe. Women's and girl's lives are on the line now, and we're really angry about that.
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Sep 22 '22
I always vote--in local, state and national elections. The older I get, the more I treasure that right and responsibility.
I wish more people voted in local elections. The consequences of those elections matter so much.
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u/Ok-Corner-8547 Sep 23 '22
It's where the rubber hits the road in terms of impact on our lives, and it is also the "farm team{s]" for those seeking higher office. Ambitious fascists start somewhere, but so do dedicated and lawful public servants.
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u/MurkyCream6969 Sep 23 '22
It's already over. Trump gave away enough secrets to foreign threats that the US has no way out. The Republican party has been compromised for decades.
Getting Trump in office allowed Russia to appoint enough Christian fundamentalists and sleazeball opportunists that the fall off America is now unstoppable.
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u/Sasselhoff Sep 23 '22
So you're saying you won't bother going out and voting? Because it's "already over"?
Huh, and I wonder how we got into this position?
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u/MurkyCream6969 Sep 23 '22
No.
I'm saying that it won't matter in the end. The supreme court will make sure of that. Voting is not the answer to this, something else is.
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u/Sasselhoff Sep 23 '22
Gotcha. So you've given up and don't vote because "it doesn't matter" (on that note, can you vote?), and you believe that violent revolution is the only answer.
Great. So I should expect you to be out there planting IEDs and packing a gun within the week, right? You remind me a lot of this guy.
If the GQP win in November and shit falls further apart because of it, followed soon after by a win in '24 because they'll keep changing the laws to fit their cheating, I want you to remember your " I don't vote because it doesn't matter" stance.
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u/MurkyCream6969 Sep 23 '22
I never said I don't vote. I always and will continue to vote. I'm saying voting will not be enough.
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u/Sasselhoff Sep 23 '22
Then you should understand that the way you are saying things is making people think "Don't vote, it won't make any difference"...which is NOT what is needed.
Trust me, I'm the most pessimistic person on the planet (I really try not to be, but it appears to be my nature), but if "we" want to win, we MUST get people out there.
If revolution is what it takes, I'm actually ready for it (I'm a very mild "prepper"), but I "beg Odin" for both myself and my future children, that we don't need to do that...because it'll be awful beyond all measure.
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u/aJoshster Sep 22 '22
The SS attempted to kidnap VP Mike Pence in order to prevent the certification of the electoral count by Congress. They were part of the conspiracy. Only his refusal to get in the limo and be removed from the capitol allowed democracy to prevail and forced tRump to eventually call off his dogs ending the insurrection and acknowledging the failure of the coup.
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u/legitimate_rapper Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22
That’s a pretty biased reading of the situation. Do you have any proof of malice, or were they maybe just doing their jobs?
Edit: really? Downvoted for asking for evidence on huge claims? Really?
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u/MuuaadDib Sep 22 '22
In hind sight it sure looks like this was the plan. From the coordinated plans, to the lost data, to the meetings, to the calls for hanging Pence. Why wouldn't Pence go with them? Not biased but based on the events and timeline it seems the most logical.
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u/legitimate_rapper Sep 22 '22
I mean, them wanting to extract him from the situation isn’t mildly abnormal at all. Is there any evidence that the agents who were tasked with extracting him were in any way not acting in good faith? Not conjecture, evidence. (ps, I’m 100% more than happy to change this position if what is known changes)
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u/zombie32killah Sep 22 '22
Well why wouldn’t he want to go with them considering them wanting to extract him is so normal?
You would have to have some serious doubts to not go with people trying to save your life.
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u/legitimate_rapper Sep 22 '22
That’s a reasonably large leap. There are other reasonable reasons:
- He knew what Trump wanted him to do and he wasn’t a total piece of shit
- knew he had armored vehicles and knew he could wait based on the sitrep (eg, they had guns and an armored vehicle and at the time there may have been few reports of deadly weapons)
- didn’t want to be seen fleeing
I could go on. I’m in NO way defending anyone or what happened on 1/6, just trying to separate fact from desire.
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Sep 22 '22
That is the testimony. Real life, check it out
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u/legitimate_rapper Sep 22 '22
Source?
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u/Icecream-Manwich Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22
“I’m not leaving the Capitol,” he reportedly told Mr Giebels. “The last thing the vice president wanted was the people attacking the Capitol to see his 20-car motorcade fleeing. That would only vindicate their insurrection.”
As the chaos continued to unfold, Mr Pence was said to have been ordered to leave the office and was escorted to a “subterranean area that rioters couldn’t reach” and towards an armoured limousine.
Mr Pence then reportedly outright refused to get into the vehicle, saying his security detail would ignore his demand not to leave the building and would instead “take off” against his wishes.
“I’m not getting in the car, Tim,” Mr Pence replied. “I trust you, Tim, but you’re not driving the car. If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. I’m not getting in the car.”
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u/buffyfan12 Light Bringer Sep 22 '22
That is not Accurate.
There was a security Breakdown, they were following protocol.
Everything else you are saying is conspiracy and conjecture.
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u/chaoticmessiah Sep 22 '22
I mean, we were talking about it on Reddit throughout November and December 2020, so why did the Secret Service and FBI - who surely also knew everything we did - not do anything about it?
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u/TangyGeoduck Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22
That’s the dumbest part of all of it. If this site can follow it all, wtf were the three letter agencies doing? Blah blah don’t chalk up to malice what can be explained by incompetence, but this sort of shit is the alleged purpose of DHS. Created so agencies can all be on the same page after 9/11. Like hell clearly.
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u/Pistolero921 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22
Of course they did, they were protecting the neo nazi leader.
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u/markodochartaigh1 Sep 22 '22
I wonder if the Secret Service will be able to sweep this scandal under the rug like they did with Agent Bolden.
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u/BasketofSharks Sep 22 '22
Well yeah there is no way they did not know. My group was frantically posting the whole fuking plot including Telegram chat logs/videos/Facebook Group Chats and more to the idiots. We told them exactly how it was going to go down. There were multiple media outlets posting stories about the exact strategy that Frump and company were going to use and how dangerous it was for Pence if he refused to go along with it. We told them about the busses and who was financing them. Did they do a damn thing about it? Nope. I wonder why?
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u/No_Influence_666 Sep 22 '22
But if you're already a neo-nazi Trumpster, as a SS person, what do you do? (Answer: look the other way and delete all your communications for that day.)
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u/brownsfan760 Sep 22 '22
Some of those that work forces.
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u/river_miles Sep 23 '22
Upvoted because you don’t have to spoon feed literal messages to get an idea across. In some circumstances repeating a well known expression can convey a message more clearly than tiresome commiserating.
And because RAGE…
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u/fleeyevegans Sep 23 '22
It sounded like they tried to drive the then vice president Pence into the sunset. I'm sure they were aware of a ton of shit.
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u/Cole1One Sep 23 '22
All of these systems used to spy on all of our communications, yet nothing was even attempted to stop the Jan 6 insurrection from happening. Seems like the fascists inside our government were supporting the coup or allowing it to happen unabated
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u/TemetNosce85 Sep 23 '22
Of course they did. And Trump would have known, too. There were already crowds getting angry at the Capitol as he was giving his speech. We already know all of this.
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u/stinkface369 Sep 23 '22
The SS come from the idea of the Praetorian Guards. It seems they have more in common then we knew.
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u/DefrockedWizard1 Sep 23 '22
It sounds like they relayed the information to the appropriate agencies who then either dropped the ball or ignored the information
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u/buffyfan12 Light Bringer Sep 22 '22
Everryone: alluding to the Secret Service (as a whole) planning on disappearing and/or executing the VP will get you banned.