r/CapitolConsequences • u/ObviousEntertainer70 • Dec 22 '21
Nearly 1 In 5 Defendants In Capitol Riot Cases Served In The Military Discussion
https://www.npr.org/2021/01/21/958915267/nearly-one-in-five-defendants-in-capitol-riot-cases-served-in-the-military27
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u/BeekyGardener Dec 22 '21
OIF Vet here.
Strip them of every single VA and retirement benefit. In fact, bring them back in ranks and charge them under UCMJ.
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u/CowardlyDodge Dec 22 '21
I get being mad but that’s completely unreasonable, they’re civilians, throw the civilian book
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u/Mountain_Act6508 Dec 22 '21
That's a little disturbing. And Fox News said they looked like tourists.
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u/indigo-alien Dec 22 '21
More than a little disturbing, and it was a GOP guy who said "just tourists".
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u/Mountain_Act6508 Dec 22 '21
I thought it was Tucker. There's probably a lot of them saying it, of course.
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u/PurkleDerk Dec 22 '21
C'mon guys, this isn't hard to look up. It was Rep. Clyde (Q-GA)
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u/typhoidtimmy Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Ah yes, the oh so observant Andrew Clyde who described the tourists as behaving normally and ‘taking pictures inside the Capitol’
So normal that people caught him pants shittingly barricading the House Chamber doors from those ‘tourists’. That Andrew Clyde?
Couldn’t find those velvet ropes and went with plan B there I guess.
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u/stupidsuburbs3 Dec 22 '21
Yeah it’s unfortunate that people are already forgetting that. I couldn’t remember his name but I can see the picture in my head and knew he was a rep from Georgia.
So now he’s going in my memory palace as a Clydesdale shitting a Georgia peach in Congress with tourirists.
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u/Mountain_Act6508 Dec 22 '21
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u/PurkleDerk Dec 22 '21
Yeah, Tucker is following Clyde's lead. Note that he said it 6 months after Clyde.
Clyde's comment is the origin of that description.
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u/DankNerd97 Dec 22 '21
Of more than 140 charged so far, a review of military records, social media accounts, court documents and news reports indicate at least 27 of those charged, or nearly 20%, have served or are currently serving in the U.S. military. To put that number in perspective, only about 7% of all American adults are military veterans, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
This is beyond alarming.
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u/PurkleDerk Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
And also suuuuper outdated.
More recent numbers: 700+ charged, 81 of them with military connections, or a little over 11%. So still high, but not 20% high.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-january-6-military-ties/
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u/DankNerd97 Dec 22 '21
Holy shit. I didn’t even notice that article was from JANUARY
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u/Severed_Snake Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
Jesus we’re really fucked. Armed forces needs to start civics testing people or something. We probably shouldn’t assume they know what it means to defend the Constitution.
The oath is pretty goddamned important ya know
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u/Damacles63 Dec 22 '21
Veteran here. Yes, I agree. I would like to see a civics test before the oath is taken. So they know what they are vowing to protect.
I had a conversation with a fellow veteran that swore it was his constitutional duty to over throw the government. When I asked him to point it out his response was "you gotta read between the lines"...
Also it wouldn't surprise me if most only did one enlistment. Those of us that have had careers spanning multiple administration's fully understand the need for the military to remain apolitical.
FYI, jarhead is slang for Marine.
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u/superVanV1 Dec 22 '21
Hey, don’t insult jarheads, there were people from all the branches.
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u/GrumpyRob Dec 22 '21
I, for one, would love to see a breakdown of the branches.
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u/keallach_ Dec 22 '21
Not sure if this is fully current (arrest count looks low), but you can search by branch: https://jan6attack.com/individuals.htm
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u/aplagueuntothee Dec 22 '21
Quick count from this database (it's early for me and I'm using my phone to scroll and count so forgive any errors) Marines - 27 Army - 24 Navy - 7 Air Force - 3 searching any I counted 56 which would leave 5 leftover for other branches.
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u/Severed_Snake Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 23 '21
I misused the term then. Didn’t realize it is used to apply to any Marine thought just knucklehead types
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Dec 22 '21
The rest of us veterans offer a sincere FUCK YOU to these traitors.
TAKE. THEIR. BENEFITS.
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u/Phobos15 Dec 22 '21
They really need to stop letting soldiers watch fox news. It is litterally a national security problem now. Soldiers should not be watching anti-usa propoganda when on base or deployment.
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u/Validus812 Dec 22 '21
So what is it about our military that creates this subset? We’re they already weak-minded or hyper-bigoted before their service? We’re they indoctrinated by fellow military? Was it their role in the countries we occupied that fueled this? Eventually I’d like to see the profile that determines traitors to their own government. Because that’s what these guys did. It is because of that service that harsher punishment should be met! I remember a documentary about Iraq and the tank officer was defending his picture of Rommel in his tank that the captives were curious about. “You put pictures up of your enemy?”
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u/superVanV1 Dec 22 '21
Those that are attracted to power are usually the exact people that will abuse it. Normally the military is meant to weed out these kinds of people but several ideological shifts happened since ww2 and 9/11 that let these assholes slip through. They also are usually the ones court marshaled for war crimes
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u/Turkstache Dec 22 '21
Buckle up for my controversial take.
The elites of the world thrive on dominion over the other. There are arguments to be made that even when the US were "the good guys" like The Union during the US Civil War or our entry into WWII, most of the pressure around involvement came from elites who feared for their bottom lines. Motivating the masses to act on the behalf of the unattainably rich is pretty tough, so we're bombarded by massive campaigns to feel social pressure or to develop intrinsic motivation. Notably, the core of the motivation is much less to do with the US as a nation and much more to do with the US as a club for the in-group.
The US right wing form of this is as effective as it is comprehensive. The enemy are Communist-Socialist-Fascist-Globalist-Cartel-Euro-Arab-Chinese-Mexican-Black-Jewish-Islamic-Atheist-Snowflake-Powerless-Elites and they'll kill you RIGHT NOW if you don't join this war or the next (don't worry, we'll make sure another war is lined up by the time this one ends).
There are people who are absolutely ecstatic about the idea of killing the above declared enemy and have an organization they can join where they can be sanctioned by the government to go fulfill this fantasy. They enter an echo chamber for the aforementioned ideas. They hear their peers and even commanding officers happily discuss killing "Hajis" (or whatever other discriminatory term is relevant to the era). They are accepted into "the brotherhood" after adoption of this mindset.
Then there are the children of the ruling classes who join the military to gain clout and be inside men, and to and develop the carefully tailored life-experience needed to run daddy's company or get prestigious jobs while getting paid by the government to do so. They typically become officers thanks to the powerful networks their fathers and fathers before them developed.
Both of these groups are not only motivated to perpetuate the aforementioned mission prior to joining, they are the ones who indoctrinate other people into the mission and actively discriminate against those who are savvy to it. The higher in rank you look, the more Wealthy WASP it gets, as they select from their in-group to succeed to the exclusion of outsiders. Sure, there are exceptions. They are just that... exceptions.
TL;DR: They were rewarded within military heirarchy for being part of the right-wing in-group. They feel like they are special for it. They feel like they will have protection (because they were often protected when their out-group peers were not) for actions driven by their twisted sense of patriotism. This makes the feel more motivation to act outside of the law and feel more safe doing it.
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u/suburbanoutrage Dec 22 '21
In my 11 years active duty and 7 years after, it's more veterans that are radicalized. We spent 20 years fighting 2 wars that achieved nothing. You have thousands of men and women who were injured or saw their buddies injured or killed. They're lost and angry. Add in the fact the shift to civilian life takes years to wrap your head around. Many vets never figure it out.
We're a people who need justification, a reason why, and someone to point is in the right direction. Along comes some cult of personality and it's the perfect recipe for extremism.
Active duty personnel are kept busy, they answer to a command structure that is diverse in many ways, and they're usually away from home. They have to rely on people of different backgrounds, color, creed, or whatever. They may still have hate, but they at least have to control it in order to survive.
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u/Validus812 Dec 22 '21
Thank you for explaining this to me. The most powerful military in the world with unaccounted billions, and we’re not addressing our veterans’ mental health or reintegration back into society. I’m ashamed to say “ thanks for your service” like some glib idiot who doesn’t know what you have seen or sacrificed. In your opinion, what can be done to begin addressing these?
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u/suburbanoutrage Dec 22 '21
There is a ton of services for veterans out there. The government has done a lot to try to address the issue. But because they're no longer active duty it's kind of on the veteran to seek out and find the help they need.
I personally think a rejuvenation of the old veteran services organizations would be helpful. If the feds dumped some money into the VFW, and Legion. Help make them more attractive to young veterans. And funnel veterans leaving the service to these organizations where they can find a community and the help they need.
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u/Validus812 Dec 22 '21
I see. I will actively seek more info on how to affect that and be more involved. I can’t resolve having an opinion without more knowledge on how to contribute.
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u/gobblox38 Dec 22 '21
The picture of Rommel has more to do with his reputation as an armored strategist than anything else. Rommel also has a reputation of treating prisoners well, not killing jews, etc.
As far as what created the kinds of people that participated in the insurrection. That's pretty much a right wing thing. There are people who honestly believe that "the left" are evil and trying to destroy the country, that overthrowing the government is justified because Thomas Jefferson said so. I fell into this for a short time while I was in. Luckily I was on my way out of this mindset when someone outside of the military tried to convince me to join the oath keepers.
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u/Validus812 Dec 22 '21
Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m glad you moved-on from that mindset and I wish you well!
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u/jfarrar19 Dec 22 '21
I remember a documentary about Iraq and the tank officer was defending his picture of Rommel in his tank that the captives were curious about
I remember this scene of the documentary but I can't remember the name of it. You remember by any chance?
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u/Validus812 Dec 22 '21
I wish I did it was years ago. But I’m glad I’m not the only one to remember this.
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u/Ah_BrightWings Dec 22 '21
Clearly our armed forces need to do a much better job of vetting those who sign up. One of the geniuses from Jan. 6th was in Air Force basic training in August. Another re-enlisted in the Army after Jan . 6th--after being interviewed by the FBI. Whoopsie.
https://news.yahoo.com/attacked-cops-capitol-riot-then-190743925.html
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u/MAZZ0Murder Dec 22 '21
Maybe they will incorporate training that explains why you shouldn't attack your own landmarks in the future.
Need to pass a written test!
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u/GoGoCrumbly Dec 22 '21
I certainly hope they lose any military benefits they might have enjoyed. I would also hope all vets, active, reservist, guard, etc. receive a more severe sentence for their participation in this insurrection.
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u/RefugeeFromIdiocy Dec 22 '21
Who would have thought that people trained in the use of violence to get their way would use violence to try and get their way?
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Dec 22 '21
This statistic blows my mind! I have been trying to understand this since that day with so many reports that came out saying suspects were either military or police or both. Wow.
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u/Damacles63 Dec 22 '21
Veterans and law enforcement are more likely to take action than your general population. If they perceive a wrong doing, especially on something they have risked their life to protect, they will act.
The problem is when they are guided by misinformation and stirred up into a frenzy.
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u/WishOneStitch Dec 22 '21
But aren't trained fighters supposed to have the skills to tell when they're getting played?
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Dec 22 '21
Right- this is kinda my thinking too. I have a difficult time understanding how anyone fell for that- The Big Lie. Why are there so many people like myself who could see it for the grift it was and then so many others who bought it: hook, line, and sinker? I don’t get it, so genuinely asking for thoughts…
I never want to be the one to make hitler comparisons, and I’m not really here, but I guess it goes back to the power of propaganda? How come it works on some and not on others?
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Dec 22 '21 edited Dec 22 '21
Because the propaganda is telling them what they want to hear. The conservative echo chamber. TrumpliKKKans got their start with "The Tea Bagger Movement" which was a direct reaction to having a Black POTUS. They did not give 2 shits about the deficit that George and his merry band of idiots created until he was out of office. Suddenly when Obama was elected it was "Oh shit look at the deficit." Bullshit, you just can't handle a Black president. The Giant Cheeto picked that shit up and expanded upon it and here we are.
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u/Damacles63 Dec 22 '21
But aren't trained fighters supposed to have the skills to tell when they're getting played?
Nope...for your enlisted, your average troop is 19 just out of high school. They are whisked away and sent to a boot camp and taught the basics. The basics included standard things like hygiene, drill movements, troop discipline, basic firearms, ect... pretty much breaking then down to nothing and then building them up from scratch.
They are then sent their advance training which is MOS (Military Occupation Specialty) such as admin clerk, truck driver, aircraft maintainer, infantry, ect...
Then they get sent to their unit to perform their job and receive supervision and on the job training from senior enlisted leadership.
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u/LAESanford Dec 22 '21
What’s the percentage of the population in general that have served in the military?
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u/Boomslangalang Dec 22 '21
Shocked not shocked.
How many pensions have been taken away?
What measures have been taken by the military to root out the cancer.
Why are the Flynn’s traitors still receiving pensions, why are seditionists still in offices fo influence.
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u/Chippopotanuse Dec 22 '21
Before I get my pitchfork, how does that compared to the population at large?
And regardless, fuck all of those guys. They took an oath to protect this country, not to wreck it.
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Dec 23 '21
A bunch of people dumb enough to fall for the propaganda that said joining the military to go fight for oil halfway across the world was somehow defending American Freedom were also dumb enough to fall for the propaganda that said trying to overthrow the government and install Trump as king of America was somehow defending democracy.
How unexpected!
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u/PurkleDerk Dec 22 '21
This article is from mere weeks after the attack. Much more recent stats show that about 81 military veterans or active duty soldiers have been arrested. With a little over 700 arrested so far, that's about 1 in 9.
More recent article:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/capitol-riot-january-6-military-ties/
Sidenote: Maybe 20 years of pointless war that never accomplished anything of value was a bad idea.