Apparently someone built a new one. I thought it was Näsinneula, which was 134m tall, but there's a new one. Some kind of cable tower which is 185 meters tall. It's a bit far away though.
This is part of why anti-depressants increase the risk of suicide. Before they take full effect, they improve your motivation enough so that some people will make the suicide attempt they've been thinking of doing.
IRL before antidepressants take full effect, you're going through a shitty acclimation process that ranges from An Unpleasant Week Or So to OMG I'm Coming Down Off Acid for a Month.
Omg I’ve never heard this theory!! That makes sooo much sense although wouldn’t it be nearly impossible to accurately test???? Anyways sounds valid enough for me to believe it holds true with many people lol
One of my kids works in a hospital in the mental health unit and has to manage suicide risk all the time. She's the one who explained it to me so it should be legit.
It shouldn't be impossible to test. These drugs would have gone through extended testing before being approved using hundreds of patients in double-blind trials (ie. half taking placebo without knowing it's a placebo) and this kind of behaviour would have been recorded. I guess it would also be observed in hospitals treating patients and experienced staff would start to recognise patterns.
double-blind trials (ie. half taking placebo without knowing it's a placebo)
I believe that what makes it double blind is that the people administering the pills also don't know whether the pills (or injections, infusions, whatever) are placebo or the thing to be tested.
But like..still how would you prove without a doubt that the reason people in general make a real suicide attempt after starting antidepressants due to the increased motivation when some of those people aren’t here for any kind of study contribution? Like I said this makes so much sense and it seems like it’d be true for a lot of people. I just can’t see a way to know that it’s true for ALL people who experience suicidal ideation then get on antidepressants and really try.
Run on sentence royalty over here
Hi, German Psych Nurse here, i try to explain what i know about this topic the best way possible. There are different antidepressants with different goals. For example, I take Venlafaxine, an antidepressant that increases motivation. But there are also antidepressants that only improve mood and do not affect motivation. If we have depressed, suicidal patients, we would NEVER give them a motivation-enhancing medication to begin with. Often it is precisely this reduction in motivation that stops people from committing suicide. If we increase motivation but the depression has not yet been adequately treated, things can go wrong. That's why in such cases we give antidepressants that stabilize mood but still keep the person "calm" overall. Not all people take their own lives because they are given motivation-enhancing medication, but some do (unfortunately, this has happened often enough). I don't think there are any real statistics on the subject, but overall it is a point that must be taken into account when treating with medication.
Makes sense! Makes total sense lol. I’ll have to google whether or not Zoloft increases motivation. I’m so curious since I’ve been on it for years and I’ve never even questioned whether it was more of a “motivational” antidepressant or a “better mood” antidepressant and now that I know what I know I’m so curious! Thanks for the explanation 🖤.
I was on Prozac for yeeeears until I felt like it wasn’t really working. Switched to Zoloft a few years back and though I can’t say I’ve had more motivation, I’m definitely less sad. 😅 I’ll have to look it up as well!
I was on it for a week, stopped it because of heightening suicide risk, then attempted and ended up on my first and so far only psych hospitalisation. For me it definitely increased SI.
I can understand that. Psychotropic drugs are extremely complex. Some increase motivation but don't change your mood so quickly, others actually have suicidal thoughts as a side effect. I don't have a specific example right now, but in the state exam we had to deal with the drug and, for example, drug 1 is given for depression, but has the side effects of suicidal thoughts so that another drug has to be given against it. In any case, you have to remember that everyone is different and no drug has the same effect on everyone, so it is incredibly important to be supervised more closely, especially at the beginning of taking it. P.S. I hope your friend is well right now :)
Hm, the only thing that comes to mind is Pregabalin (I don't know under what name it is sold elsewhere, though). We give Pregabalin for physical pain, especially nerve pain, for example in shingles. But it also works for anxiety disorders and mild depression.
Pharmacist— This is well documented in most pharmaceuticals. They did do double blind studies, it’s a basic requirement for regulatory approval in the US so any “drug” being sold in the last few decades has been through a few years of allegedly supervised research and trial. The general trend in some antidepressants sees physical effects — therapeutic and adverse — after 4 weeks, but mental effects — therapeutic and adverse — can take 6-8 weeks. In practice, it can take 4-6 months to know how well a medication is working and even not-working. (suicidality is not a reason to stop, but is a reason to support and monitor and adjust.)
After a month or so people might have more energy, waking up less tired, crashing out less, taking a shower gets easier, making meals is easier, the physical aspects are easier. This is what’s meant by “increased motivation” . While the physical condition is healing, the emotional and mental is slower. You have all the energy but still have the thoughts, and the energy sometimes can be channeled to action, especially if they were planning before seeking treatment. Sometimes people mistake the “sudden” suicide after improved motivation to undiagnosed bipolar disorder, but bipolar disorder is not as common as depression, presents in care differently, and requires months of monitoring to establish cycling. The risk is not scientifically attributed to misdiagnosed bipolar, but to the difference in the onset of action and the long term nature of psychopharmacotherapy.
This is documented and you should be counseled on it, and your prescriber probably knows about it. The studies have been done. Researchers follow up with patients and had some who did act and it was often at 4 weeks. “PubMed” is cool resource that can give you access to some of the literature. The studies include the number of patients who died and the causes. The patients that made it through the first few months of the study without an attempt (nor successful attempt?) had a higher rate of meeting defined treatment goals for efficacy.
(This also means physical side effects show up in the first few months, mainly nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Usually normal, can be managed, and is usually what you’re really judging for the first few months. You can ask your prescriber or pharmacist about what side effects to look for and what severe side effects to reach out about.)
During the first few months of starting a new psych med you should be having a couple 2 week follow ups, then if you get through 2-6 months while meeting your treatment goals or trending that way, your follow ups should become less frequent as your condition is managed.
But yes this is a very real thing and not just an internet rumor.
The 2-6 month rule is good rule of thumb for most low risk medications, adjusting and monitoring side effects as needed.
Absolutely! Duloxetine and amitriptyline are two that come to mind. Duloxetine most commonly as capsules for pain. Amitriptyline and doxepin i’ve seen used topically.
Do you have a science background? That’s not usually an intuitive thought, I only know it from work experience. I’m super impressed you mentioned it!
Thanks for your reply. I've been trying to research it. I live with chronic pain in my back for the last 14 years. Tried many pain killers and currently taking pain meds (the same ones for all this time) tried acupuncture, hydro therapy, physio, had so many injections that sadly didn't work. I did a 10 week pain management course and after all that they have said there isn't much more they can do. When I asked about pain relief (I have 7/8 out of 10 pain daily) they said about Antidepressants. So I went down a rabbit hole, came across some studies but the end result was "unremarkable" although some patients did report less pain with certain Antidepressants like Duloxentine as you mentioned.
I was a bit defeated when the nurse said about them. It felt like because they are Antidepressants and not actual pain killers that they won't help but I'm willing to give it a try. I'm just waiting on a cat scan to be done first then I'll start.
I have a daughter with chronic pain who takes 30mg Duloxetine per day. We are starting to look at EMS treatments too to see if they have any impact. I'm not sure if they reduce her pain or just improve her mood as part of the treatment to try and cure her pain syndrome.
I was put on an antidepressant that absolutely did not work for me at all and I understood firsthand why they increase the risk. I can’t explain it but it really gave me a very strong feeling that I needed to die as soon as possible. I was dealing with a lot of anxiety at the time more than depression but I had been that depressed like 10 years prior and this med scared the F out of me. Felt like I really could have died after 2 doses and nobody would make sense of it.
Prior to that I thought that a population of people seeking that type of treatment was a thumb on the scale of risk.
This is why there are warnings on certain medications that are supposed to make you feel better saying that It can cause suicide. It turns out that if you suddenly feel better, you might suddenly have the motivation to carry through your plan. It's an unexpected side effect
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u/Flipin75 1d ago
For a majority of life, if I had enough confidence to believe I could succeed at killing myself I would have tired.
When your self-confidence is so low it actually saves your life.