r/Anticonsumption • u/effortDee • Dec 04 '23

David Attenborough has just asked everyone to go plant based on Planet Earth III Environment

Attenborough "if we shift away from eating meat and dairy and move towards a plant based diet then the suns energy goes directly in to growing our food.

and because that is so much more efficient we could still produce enough to feed us, but do so using just a quarter of the land.

This could free up the area the size of the United States, China, EU and Australia combined.

space that could be given back to nature."

3.5k Upvotes

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185

u/Deathtostroads Dec 04 '23

We need to end all of that and animal agriculture. Ignoring the scientists telling us the environmental devastation caused by animal agriculture isn’t productive

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

People want to pretend they dont have to change. If they convince themselves their actions have no effect they can stay the same.

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u/trashed_culture Dec 04 '23

I'm over it. You gotta be rich to vote with your dollars.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

Eating vegan is cheaper. Meat and dairy are expensive.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

Meat and dairy are subsidized to hell. That's why I hate the argument about a vegan diet being expensive. Also, veg, beans, greens, and grains aren't expensive.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

Thats right. Neither is tofu.

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u/mantasm_lt Dec 04 '23

Meat and dairy also grow in very varied environments. While a lot of vegan options seem to be based on stuff that grows in rather narrow band. That's why meat and dairy got so popular in the first place I guess...

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u/InstanceAgreeable548 Dec 04 '23

That’s subjective. Where I live dairy products are far cheaper than the alternatives. Meat is expensive though.

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u/Velaseri Dec 04 '23

Cheese is more expensive than beans? That's crazy, where are you?

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u/InstanceAgreeable548 Dec 04 '23

Dairy alternatives. I’m in Ireland where dairy farming is heavily subsidised and has destroyed most of the environment. A family will find it much cheaper to buy cows milk than soy or whatever.

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u/notsosecrethistory Dec 04 '23

I found soy milk in SuperValu for 79c a few days ago, which is cheaper than equivalent volume of milk. Change is coming!

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u/Velaseri Dec 04 '23

Oh wow, that sucks. I'm sorry.

Those industries should have to pay for the damage they caused and not get so many kickbacks!

Same here in Aus, though, with the meat industry, destroying so much land.

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u/InstanceAgreeable548 Dec 04 '23

They should. There’s a lot Of environmental destruction that farmers get away with north and south. Our biggest lough is now polluted from illegal waste dumping from farmers too. They’re generally not a group of people I have a lot of respect for.

We’re not dairy/meat/egg eaters in my house (I don’t check enough ingredient lists to say I’m vegan 😂). We also have some of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world, formula is even more expensive than dairy alternatives so when you think about it it’s really understandable why a lot of parents switch to cows milk when baby turns one.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

Milk is cheaper than soy, almond, oat milk? Here in australia until recently 1L of milk was 1 dollar but now the cheap non dairy milks are the same price as dairy or cheaper. Vegan cheese is expensive but also unnecessary. Part of going vegan/plant based involves changing what you eat.

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u/InstanceAgreeable548 Dec 04 '23

Yeah, milk would be a lot cheaper here than alternative milk. A quick look at my Tesco app says cows milk is currently £1.55 for 2 litres and soya is £2 for 1 litre.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

I can see £.90 litres of soy milk at ireland aldi.

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u/InstanceAgreeable548 Dec 04 '23

I’m in the north and we don’t have Aldi. Anyway, you’re preaching to the choir here because I don’t consume animal products. The fact is that for many families with young children cows milk is the cheaper option. Our breastfeeding rates are some of the lowest in the world, and formula is stupid expensive. I feel lucky to breastfeed my daughter and other than allergy exposure tests she’s been kept cruelty free. It’s not an option for a lot of mums here who are struggling to keep the house warm, never mind worrying about animal welfare or environmental impact.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23

Nice good on you.

People in the grips of tough poverty where small amounts of money in the shopping bill break their ability to keep a house heated should consider saving money by not buying meat. They could probably then afford to get the fortified soy milk thats perfectly fine as an alternative to cows milk for 1 year olds.

I understand not having the bandwidth to worry about things because of stress but in terms of reasons the vast majority of people in western countries cant go vegan/plant based, cost is very rarely one of them.

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u/Expontoridesagain Dec 04 '23

I envy you. My kids can't drink milk because of allergies. I pay 4 AUD for 1l of cheapest oat milk. Kids love almond and coconut but I can't afford it because it costs 8,40 AUD for 1l. In some countries people just can't afford to go 100% plantbased.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 04 '23 edited Dec 04 '23

Right, so you can afford plant based milk cause you buy it already. If a vegan or someone who wanted to be plant based lived somewhere that soy mklk etc didnt even exist lets say. They wouldnt drink cows milk, theyd just not have milk. If someone is in a situation where they literally have no alternative, then theres nothing you can do about that. It's about doing as much as you literally can. Which for most people in western nations would be to be fully plant based/vegan.

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u/mantasm_lt Dec 04 '23

Almond milk is fucking expensive. And almond grows in very few places on earth compared to cows. Hmmm, transport stuff across the globe or milk a local cow? Soy doesn't exactly grow everywhere either. Oat is more universal though.

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u/CHudoSumo Dec 05 '23

Bulk transport via cargo ship is actually very low impact compared to livestock.

But almonds specifically are something i avoid myself as they are grown with absurd water requirements, often in places without the water to spare.

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u/mantasm_lt Dec 05 '23

I'm more worried about local economy and local ecology. It's not cool to send fuckton of money oversees. Both to farms and shippers. And those who make the fuel for the ships.

On top of that, here grazing fields are important part of the ecosystem. Both fauna and flora has adapted to grazing. Grazing fields are no less diverse than old-grown forest. And then there're some sparse forests-borderline-grazing-fields which are best of both worlds. Although they're slowly going away since modern farming has a hard time with them. But even grazing fields are great.

That's the alternative? Let diverse fields overgrow into forests (we have plenty of those already)? Fuck over local dairy farms and ruin local economy? And grazing fields do look much better than monoculture oat fields.

That's a though sell TBH.

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u/DaisyCutter312 Dec 04 '23

We need to end all of that and animal agriculture

It's pointless to even say that, because short of a One-World government with a healthy dose of martial law thrown in, that will never happen.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

Everybody gets a swimming pool but NO CHICKENS!

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u/Deathtostroads Dec 04 '23

Who is getting a swimming pool? Why would everyone get a swimming pool? What does that have to do with animal agriculture?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

You’re arbitrarily deciding that a luxury favored by other people is ‘the one big thing’. I own a piece of land that’s 20x20 meters, I can use it for chickens to grow eggs or put a swimming pool there. Every possible human land use has costs and benefits, there is no single itemized list of best to worst. All of the worst is what is corrupted by the most base profit-driven capitalism.

Close down the dairy farm and put a dollar store there? Different example of the same analogy.

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u/Deathtostroads Dec 04 '23

Ideally we’d rewild the former farm/pasture land and allow native ecosystems reclaim the land. This would act as a carbon sink and improve biodiversity

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

But it only works if it’s 100%? A chunk of my land moved from pasture to woods over the last 50 years. Is it only good enough if I can’t get any hay? Do we all have to move to the city?

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23 edited Aug 05 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

The vegans are all over all the livestock, look at your downvotes lol. Yes, non-vegan environment folks don’t mind small holdings including animal ag

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '23

Industrial scale animal agriculture, yes, but small scale animal agriculture is one of the best ways to rehabilitate land depleted by irresponsible farming.

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u/hangrygecko Dec 04 '23

Where do you want to get fertilizer from? Russian mines that run out in a few decades or homebred cows?

We need livestock to produce enough plant based food and we need livestock to make use of the infertile soil regions, because grass grows everywhere, and high protein vegetables do not.