r/AlanWake • u/splatmastery Champion of Light • Feb 12 '24
Seriously, don't do it unless you want to see some of the dumbest people on the entire planet. I thought it would be funny. I was wrong. General
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u/uwjsjsjdgw Parautilitarian Feb 12 '24
Yeah you made me look it up out of curiosity. What a bunch of losers dude, cant get it through their noggin that Saga is related to Door. Then again why would you expect them to have any sort of media literacy
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u/Lievan Feb 12 '24
cant get it through their noggin that Saga is related to Door.
But this means they would have to actually play the game. We know for a fact they didn't do such thing.
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Feb 12 '24
And that’s the rub. If you watch these Gone Woke videos for any fandom long enough- and I don’t recommend you do- they always eventually let slip that they haven’t actually played or watched the thing. They were never actually fans. They just peeked in when they heard there was something to pretend to be outraged about for traffic.
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u/VesselNBA Feb 13 '24
I played the game and never found out about this
today I learned
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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts Feb 13 '24
Yeah, Door is Saga's father. It's not directly stated, but REALLY strongly hinted. Like, "I'm shocked anyone could miss it" strongly.
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u/soupspin Feb 13 '24
>! For real. He has a connection to Tor and Odin, he said Alan dragged someone he cared about into the story, he and Saga share the power to walk through doors between realities, that line Tor makes about Saga’s dad opening “doors that shouldn’t be opened.” I’ll be shocked if in the sequel her dad turns out to be someone else !<
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
Saga is related to door? I must've missed that. Is it cuse they're both black? lol.
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u/gallaxo Herald of Darkness Feb 12 '24
Well there is def that, but that's a very minor clue compared to the other. 1. Tor and Odin made Door leave. It is implied that Freya (Saga's Mother, and Door's wife) was very pissed at them for that and decided to leave them with Saga. That's how Tor wrote Anger's Remorse; a song about him regreting his past actions. 2. Warlin has powers, including the capacity to freely switch between the real world and the darkest place. In a piece on manuscript found at the end of the game, it explains how Saga can also do so (capacity from genetics ?)
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u/Express_Memory_8040 Feb 13 '24
- Door tells Alan that he's gotten someone he really cares about involved in their last talk
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u/gallaxo Herald of Darkness Feb 13 '24
Yeah I forgot about that, there a bunch of things I forgot because I was just talking with what I had on top of my head
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u/okaykiera Feb 12 '24
Another reference I noticed while playing the game is the “Father” doll on the nursery rhyme side mission looks like Door
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u/soupspin Feb 13 '24
My favorite is Tor saying that Saga’s father opened doors that shouldn’t be opened. I thought that was a pretty big clue
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u/speedo_bunny Herald of Darkness Feb 13 '24
Even in the Anger's Remorse song, Tor refers to Saga as the 'grey' from black and white. Atleast, that's what I've taken from the lyrics when I heard it and figured out the connections between all of them.
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
So what is their relation? Is Door Saga's father?
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u/gallaxo Herald of Darkness Feb 12 '24
Yes, Door is her father.
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
I mean it's a flimsy implication at best. It's not as clear as Tor and Odin's relation to Saga.
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u/hartforbj Feb 12 '24
lsn't there the scene at the end where Mr door warns Alan about hurting people he loves very much hinting at him dragging saga into the story
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u/kween_hangry Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
Yes, this is literally why the entire game Warlin is side eyeing Alan extremely hard. He wants to remind Alan that he's playing with fire here, and if he FUCKS UP this 'escape attempt' there will be HELL to pay. SAGA is his KIN.
Warlin also fully knows Alan is suffering amnesia, which is WHY he dosnt just destroy him on the spot. He also knows this spiral-loop- Might be 'the one'. And so he leads Alan on to continue his 'mission' to escape the DP. He knows this 'attempt' is necessary to ALSO send Saga down HER path. What path? Exactly what Warlin wants- Saga's powers 'maturing' so that he can interact with her and have a successor, eventually the 'next' Warlin, possibly whether she likes it or not. So Alan's success is WARLIN's success.
Warlin's methods are to not DIRECTLY intervene unless he believes it to be absolutley necessary without harming the timeline (IE, YEETING Tim Breaker out of the entire game because he was going to 'spoil the plot). Which is why he doesn't obliterate Alan right on the spot. He merely mocks him and toys with his intentions, pining for info into how 'regressed' his amnesia is. He's aware that eventually, Alan's memories may return, because these last few attempts he's remembered Warlin. So when Warlin meets with Alan one-on one, like "Look fool- let's cut the bullshit" He's aware that ALAN is now more aware of what's happening (much like how we the player are now further into the story).
Warlin may also be aware that Alan is on the low, an extremely powerful Parautilitatian. Maybe NOT on warlins level as Alan, but as Mr Scratch, Alan is capable of possibly destroying the fabric of reality. He knows better than to go ham on Alan and tempt fate. So; the best he can do is send him on a loop goose chase and hint at his manuscript drafts in the hopes of jogging his memory
Again. I love this games story. Its all there, you just kinda have to absorb it a bit and ask yourself questions! TLDR - This is all technically some kinda DBZ mind games going on with all these characters
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u/gallaxo Herald of Darkness Feb 12 '24
I mean what I am saying is not a theory. We know for a fact that she's his daugher
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
I mean exact examples from the game would be useful to prove your (our?) point, i.e. screenshots.
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u/uwjsjsjdgw Parautilitarian Feb 12 '24
“Dive through the dark, To find the light on the other side,
You will find him there, The piece you’re missing, The man I drove away” (Angers Remorse lyrics)
Tor mentions multiple times throughout the game that he is the reason Saga is without a father and that’s the reason Freya cut her family off.
“Dive through the dark” is obviously talking about the dark place, which is where Door happens to be.
During Alan and Doors final conversation Door mentions, “And so is someone important to me, someone you drew into this.” when referring to Alan putting others in danger.
And in the final nursery rhyme, which is pretty obviously based on Saga’s story, the father doll looks almost exactly like Door.
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
I mean there's quite a few people stuck in the dark place, just cuse he's the only black character you interact with in the dark place doesn't mean he's Saga's father. lol. Also the black father who leaves his daughter to go be the mastermind of the "Dark Place", sounds too perfect for assumption, doesn't it?
Yes Tor does mention that, but he doesn't go into detail on anything regarding her father or why left, or who he was. So all speculative.
“And so is someone important to me, someone you drew into this.” Also speculative. Alan drew in quite a few people into his story, including the cop, for example. So very speculative.
Does the father doll look like Door? IDK. I tried to find screenshots without going into the game and it looks like he just has a black face. Very speculative indeed.
I think it's open ended, so I don't think "we" know anything for sure. That will probably be revealed in a DLC, but considering how many people are speculating it, I doubt the writers would appease the audience by giving them exactly what they want. At least judging by Sam Lake's style of writing.
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u/Cryptoss Feb 12 '24
Did you just not pay attention to the dialogue or manuscript pages or case files?
It’s even in the lyrics to anger’s remorse
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u/0x7ff04001 Feb 12 '24
You said in the case files, elaborate on that? In which case file does she deduce that Door is her father??
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Feb 12 '24
The nursery rhymes also heavily imply that, also door saying that alan is putting someone important to him at risk
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u/Fragrant_Living_9189 Old Gods Rocker Feb 13 '24
Also when the Anderson brothers went to the lake and before Odin lost his eye, it was said lightning hit a dark man and he vanished. (This was "Old Gods" chapter I think) And then we as Alan progress through the game and with each interaction with Tim(Jack Joyce obviously), more information about Door was revealed. In the Oceanview hotel mission he(Tim) said that Warlin Door was hit by lightning and then he vanished.
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u/kween_hangry Feb 12 '24
There are 2 things pre-NG+ that fully confirm this, and connecting it is pretty staightforward
One is a soft reveal that kind of leads into hard evidence:The nursing rhyme dolls lead up to the 'story' of Warlin and Saga. Saga, being possibly the 'little girl' figure (though I think it's supposed to be logan, but the game kind of pushes and pulls with that) But specifically the Hero figure. The white mom is supposed to be Saga's mom. Multiple nursery rhyme stories shout out an "absent father", leading up to the final doll you recieve, a black man with glasses and a baby. This is 100% Warlin. Warlin is not only the "absent father" in her familial relationship- but he's ABSENT from this entire DIMENSION. This doll is also literally sealed in an official FBC box - as the very mentioning of Warlin as a concept is extremely powerful. Also, remember; this is 100% related on the 'in story' irl events because again, you need to base your nursery rhymes after things that are REAL. The FBC was aware of Warlin AND Saga's origins and were exploiting their parautilitarian connections through the use of the Rhymes.
The other is hard evidence that is kind of 'dropped' on the low:When you interrogate Warlin at the near-end of the game, in one of his responses to Saga, he specifically mentions a "family of Doors", and their powers that they share to manipulate time and space and CREATE spaces, through doors/portals. Then, right after, he says, "US DOORS..". He's speaking directly to Saga here, through the powers that she has, as Warlin is seemingly aware of her presence during his interrogation. If you just connect the very small amount of dots, this confirms *maury voice* he IS the father. Strictly because he talks also about 'needing a successor.'
As many have mentioned, this last part is what He, Tor, and Odin all were scuffling about. Tor and Odin wanting Saga to have a normal childhood, as a regular human being-- and Warlin desiring Saga to come with him / and be whisked away to whatever his overall plans are with the universe, to be his 'DBZ-style Parautilitarian understudy'. That push and pull is how Odin lost his 'wrong eye' in a fight WITH LIGHTNING.
MAN I love the story of these games lol
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u/Filthy_Cossak Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
Door also chastises Alan for pulling “someone very dear to him” into the story. Some argue that he’s talking about Tim, but the Saga angle makes a lot more sense
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u/Twa_Corbies Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
I like that you mention that the Doors have the ability to create spaces... Sounds like someone we know of, no. A certain federal agent with a very powerful mind place of her own? Sure Saga get's her clairvoyant powers from the Anderson-side of the family, but I can't keep myself from wondering if the mind place is wholly or partly a physical place in another dimension, or even between dimensions. A gift/ability that in such case would be inherited from her father. I don't have much evidence for this, but I think it's amusing if such a big piece of the puzzle was hidden in plain sight, disguised as a game mechanic. It also would explain how quickly she mastered the ability to escape the dark place, she'd already used it but unbeknownst even to herself!
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u/kween_hangry Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
Yeah man. The fact that this explains it and it somehow makes sense is genuinely perfect. I love me some good-ass actually explained weirdness in a story. ALL my questions the entire game were answered in that ONE sentence from Warlin, I was sooo mindfucked haha. It was so vague yet CONCRETE, I was wondering the whole game how the hell saga had this 'mind place' thing -- and what the F is Warlin's studio all about....and why it wasnt explained. MASSIVE brain bust, all they had to do is show me that SAGA IS A DOOR. Its a POWER they SHARE. DAMN. It connected and I dropped my controller and just kinda stared at the ceiling ahaha.. Sam Lake and crew, yall are special
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u/-Syron- Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
>! Why doesn't anyone mention Tor and Odin's NG+ dialogue with Saga in the Dark Place? !<
Tor and Odin talk about performing on Door's show, and Odin asks Tor if that means that Tor "buried the hatchet".
That's the most straightforward evidence, yet nobody talks about it.
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Feb 13 '24
The game doesn’t straight up confirm it but it implies she is his daughter if you read between the lines.
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u/NickCarpathia Feb 13 '24
Through the law of conservation of characters I very quickly figured out that Saga’s mysterious absent father was very likely Mr Door.
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u/crackpipeclay Feb 13 '24
Yea when their core argument is that “but Saga was white in decade old promotional material” then you know they have no ground to stand on. It’s like this awful clickbait article I saw about “race swapping” in The Suicide Squad game. Like how about you criticize it for actual reasons and not because you obviously have a biased opinion that whites are being targeted and removed from media.
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u/Dinocologist Feb 12 '24
It’d be hilarious if none of them cared about Saga but they were fucking FUMING about all the Fins.
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u/Long-Requirement8372 Hypercaffeinated Feb 12 '24
Yeah, it is kind of funny that Saga is "forced diversity" for these people, but then rarely anyone of them mentions the fact that Watery is ridiculously Finnish for an American little town.
I guess it is only "forced" diversity when the minority in question is not white. In other words, it's sheer racist hypocrisy.
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u/Snoo99779 Feb 12 '24
Did you know there was a whole debate on whether or not Finnish immigrants in the US were white back in the day? They weren't sure if Finns were actually Asians. Even the Nazis didn't consider Finns racially pure whereas the Swedes and Norwegians were. So you know, there would be historical precedent for discrimination!
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u/Long-Requirement8372 Hypercaffeinated Feb 12 '24
Yes, this is quite well known history here in Finland. Like the fact that there were, for example, bars in the US with signs saying "No Finns or Indians allowed". And so on.
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u/Wolf_Larsen25 Feb 12 '24
What… where? Not doubting just would like some proof as that sounds absolutely ridiculous and made up.
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u/Johnny_Change Feb 12 '24
"Not doubting but that sounds absolutely made up." Lol. Funny guy.
https://www.mnopedia.org/place/mesaba-co-op-park
"The period of the park’s founding was one of anti-Finnish sentiment. Signs across the Range read, “No Indians or Finns allowed.” The Finns’ prominent role in the 1907 and 1916 Mesaba Range strikes had led to blacklisting."
I got curious so I googled this.
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u/Wolf_Larsen25 Feb 13 '24
Ha! That's so weird. I guess if there was a large influx in a specific area that may have been the source of the concerns. It did strike me as odd that there would be a general anti-Finn sentiment but I guess this was a specific localised incident.
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u/Johnny_Change Feb 13 '24
I mean...is it really that weird? Lol. America has a history of not liking people that are different, even different white people. I mean the Irish, Scottish, Italians, all treated like second class citizens or less in alot of places, not just one small town in bumfuck nowhere, I'm talking major cities.
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u/Wolf_Larsen25 Feb 13 '24
For sure. But I would have thought the sign would be more generic about foreigners than specify Finns
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u/bwtwldt Feb 13 '24
How does that sound made up? It’s common knowledge that whiteness has evolved and now includes more groups (Germans, Italians, Irish, etc.)
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u/Wolf_Larsen25 Feb 13 '24
It sounds made that Finns were the other group discriminated against. I know Poles, Irish and Italians had it tough at the start but for someone to specify Finns is very odd to me.
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u/hartforbj Feb 12 '24
Crazy that I've never once heard that growing up in the US. However I can kind of see it happening but not because of race but because for a good amount of time America was full of groups that hated each other based on country of origin.
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u/Pakkachew Feb 13 '24
There were not too many Finnish immigrants and I think Finn immigration was concentrated only to small part of the country. Because of that I guess that discrimination is more like local history instead of nationwide sentiment.
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u/Setanta777 Feb 12 '24
"Alright, we'll give some land to the n******s and the chinks, but we don't want the Irish!"
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Feb 12 '24
Race has always had a weird relationship with class. “White” has always had extra rules on it, and who gets to count has always been shifting. Ask Irish and Catholic Americans what it was like for their grandparents.
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u/AlAboardTheHypeTrain Feb 12 '24
They were leaning back at first but "drinking alone in your underwear" and "fuck the government" won them over :D.
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u/Dinocologist Feb 12 '24
Yeah it’s almost like like they’re just straight up racist but know they can’t just come out and say that
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u/IntrinsicGamer Feb 12 '24
I live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which is a VERY Finnish area. In fact, it’s the only place in the US where a plurality of residents are of Finnish descent. So for a town in Washington to be THAT Finnish is extremely abnormal haha
Nonetheless, I’m part-Finnish myself, so it is fun seeing so much recognizable personas.
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u/rockthetardis Feb 12 '24
idk, it's a very small town that's fairly insular, so it's not that out there that cultural traditions would be kept through the generations. I wouldn't be surprised if it drew Finnish ex-pats simply because it'd be like a home away from home. A lot of small towns like that can be entirely run by a couple of families, too. By the time we enter Watery, it's pretty much being run entirely by Ilmo Koskela (Jaako seems less interested in the businesses, so I'm assuming he takes the backseat there), who is VERY proud of his Finnish heritage.
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u/pierzstyx Park Ranger Feb 12 '24
Watery really isn't though. First, America had these kind of ethnic and national enclaves all across it. Secondly, Watery is based on an actual American town with a substantial Finnifh population.
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u/Professional_Ad1841 Feb 12 '24
You can't count backwards from 10 until somebody mentions 15th century Bohemia...
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u/CutToTheChaseTurtle Feb 12 '24
You don't understand, it's about ethics in game journalism! (sarcasm)
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Feb 12 '24
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Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
Don't forget Bannons WOW gold farm where he was first introduced to the power of angry lonely gamers. Back in 2007.
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u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Feb 13 '24
I’ve been gaming my entire life (now aged 28) and I’m really glad I didn’t get sucked into the regressive politics culture, easily could’ve happened as I know a few people I use to play with back then fall into the rabbit hole
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u/CutToTheChaseTurtle Feb 12 '24
Not sure if Bannon can take the credit, but Trump 2016 definitely looked like Gamergate 2.0
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u/monitorhero_cg Feb 12 '24
Just had a debate on this sub with one of these people who actually think Alan Wake is woke. Just deranged. Imagine being triggered by every media you consume. They are culturally isolated.
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u/kween_hangry Feb 12 '24
Saga: one of the best video characters I've ever played as in literal years, super deep as a human, amazing mocap and vocal performance (SHE'S BRITISH.), The Team at remedy quite literally making one of my favorite character models AND designs on just a GENERAL game-creation level
Hogs: Black woman = WoKE! BLM CRT NONSENSE! COMMON DAY! ForCED DiVersity!
Also.. The actual game: Steeped in Finnish and Viking shit. Like by their standards that's actually even more white than I was expecting lmao
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Feb 12 '24
SHE'S BRITISH
WHAT.
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u/SubspaceBiographies Old Gods Rocker Feb 13 '24
There’s one spot near the end where you can catch that she’s British. I don’t remember what it was, but the way she pronounced something gave it away.
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u/kween_hangry Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 15 '24
yeah me and my so (in JEST!!) make fun of how she says "Andrerson" - as its TOTALLY a fully believable african american last name 100% but because she's british, she leans towards saying it closer to "Andrewson". It was literally the only tell and we looked her up and confirmed it lol.
EDIT: The actress's name is Melanie Liburd btw, maybe she got a little frenche' goin on too haha
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u/Avanchnzel Feb 12 '24
I already knew about that before seeing "Alan Woke" for the first time here in this post, but I just don't give a f*ck what some stupid people say in that regard about Alan Wake and/or Remedy.
The art of not giving a f*ck saves a lot of time and sanity, making it possible to enjoy the good things in life. Like playing and loving Alan Wake. 😁
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u/Hero2Zero91 Feb 13 '24
I've honestly gotten to the point when someone accuses a developer or game or whatever being leftist or woke I sort of shut off cuz it's like yea okay dude lmao touch grass
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u/ThatIowanGuy Feb 12 '24
Oh no, I’m afraid to look. I’ve been jokingly calling it Alan Woke around friends at work. It hasn’t been driven into an insane place by right wing freaks, has it?
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u/BiophysicsAndEE Feb 12 '24
It has. They're upset Saga Anderson is half black in order to tie into Warlin Door/Matrin Hatch. Their only piece of "evidence" is an in-game trailer when you play Quantum Break. But it does say in that same in-game trailer that it's an adaptation, so it could also (more realistically) be that they white washed that character in Quantum Break since Alan Wake was nowhere to be found at that time.
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u/AffixBayonets Feb 12 '24
I haven't played Quantum Break, so I watched the trailer and found it hilarious that Agent Casey also seems to die in that trailer. It's so obviously an early draft/alternate take on the themes that were actually used years later.
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u/there_is_always_more Feb 12 '24
Also, QB isn't even in the same universe as Alan Wake. It makes no sense to rage about a random Easter Egg.
They changed the actors for Alice and Cynthia, I don't see anyone whining about that even though if they wanna whine about "having a different actor", they should be whining about that more.
It's literally just racism lol
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u/Jakester627 Feb 12 '24
To be fair, people have said how jarring it was on this sub to have different actors play Cynthia and Alice, but they recast them since both of those actresses died in real life.
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u/Agentjayjay1 Feb 13 '24
I'd heard of heelvsbabyface before, but never actually saw his channel. Good grief. This man has no life outside of calling everything woke.
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u/dihenydd1 Feb 12 '24
Game contains a gay. Literally unplayable!
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u/_TLDR_Swinton Feb 12 '24
A gay? In MY metafictional horror video game????
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u/ansonr Old Gods Rocker Feb 12 '24
I mean if there are infinite multiverses there certainly is one out there where you yourself are a gay.
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u/derLeisemitderLaute Feb 13 '24
I needed sooo long to realize the name Alan Wake has a meaning. A.Wake.
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u/deetsay Nordic Walker Feb 13 '24
I have to say I expected more mental gymnastics in taking things from the game that can be understood as sympathetic towards any kind of minority, reasoning why this is completely wrong and unrealistic fantasy, how it all would be better with only straight white males in every role just like real life, and framing it all as part of a some huge American political culture war conspiracy, where Remedy is obviously a major player in cahoots with Big Hollywood and Disney. And of course crushing critique of the dancing and singing.
Instead it was just straightforward Saga hatred and something about diversity consultants ruining everything, and then just getting increasingly angrier at completely random things in the game that don't make sense, because that's bad writing and woke and bad game and woke bad.
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u/remlapca Feb 12 '24
lol I did the same and got so mad I started calling people out. I got notifications out the ass for days
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor Feb 12 '24
A half black FBI agent isn’t all that strange. What’s strange is a tiny town in what is supposed to be rural Washington being like 50% black, judging by the patrons at the diner and random people around town.
I can’t say it hurt the game in any way for me personally but it most definitely isn’t realistic. Washington and its neighbor Oregon are so white that they are home to multiple white nationalist movements .
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u/Dizzy_Gnome Parautilitarian Feb 13 '24
I accept that Saga is Mr. Door's daughter at this point, but it does kind of rub me the wrong way. Remedy has come a long way in terms of progressive views, but having the only two black characters in the remedyverse being related feels a little off to me. (I know there's the Bookers as well, but they're such a small part of the story, and that part I really liked)
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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
There's also FBC Head of Operations Helen Marshall. Though, not anymore by the time of AW2 I suppose... but then again, with multiverse and time travel shenanigans who knows? We might see her again in some form.
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u/Dizzy_Gnome Parautilitarian Feb 13 '24
That's true, and she was a badass. Along with being the best boss fight in control, imo.
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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts Feb 14 '24
Along with being the best boss fight in control, imo.
Ehh, I gotta give my vote to The Former, for being the only one (iirc) that didn't commit one of the cardinal sins of game design, swarming you with minor enemies during the boss fight. (Which, remembering how heavy Control leaned on that makes me really happy with AW2 for not doing so.)
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u/Dizzy_Gnome Parautilitarian Feb 14 '24
For sure AW2 has some of the best boss fights in any Remedy game (Mulligan & Thorton for me). And idk I love the spectacle of The Former fights, but they're so brain dead easy, just spam launch and it's over in seconds. I thought the amount of enemy swarming for Marshall's fight was "just right", afterwards I had the second fight with Tomasi and wanted to pull my hair out from all the enemies, especially the invisible bastards.
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u/VirtualRoad9235 Feb 13 '24
Making this whole topic provides attention to content creators seeking to create that type of engagement, as it provides views and $$$.
Are you stupid, OP?
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u/splatmastery Champion of Light Feb 14 '24
Eh, I just wanted to make this shitty meme and post it. I don't think it's that big of a deal.
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Feb 12 '24
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u/derPylz Feb 12 '24
Saga is black because they decided in the many years between the Easter egg in QB and the actual development of AW2 that she should be Mr. Door's daughter. Mr. Door is black because he is basically Mr. Hatch from QB who was portrayed by Lance Reddick, who would have portrayed Mr. Door, if he hadn't died before that (RIP). Making her Door's daughter is much more impactul than changing the colour of her skin. You know, plans change in 13 years. Not everything has to be some conspiracy.
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u/cms186 Old Gods Rocker Feb 12 '24
And they're probably the reason why the devs race-swapped Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2 who was originally a blonde woman in Quantum Break.
this is just nonsense, there was an unnamed female FBI character in Quantum Break who had no voice lines, could it not be that they decided to go with a different character after 10 years, characters are allowed to be black for other reasons than "Race-Swapping" you know?
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Feb 12 '24
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u/VesselNBA Feb 13 '24
and they changed her skin tone to accommodate for the storyline. it was not forced.
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Feb 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/VesselNBA Feb 13 '24
So you didn't play the game? How are you this upset about a game you didn't play?
Saga is related to Mr Door. Specifically, she is his daughter.
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u/DrMeepster Feb 12 '24
"woke" is not a legitimate criticism in any circumstance because it doesn't fucking mean anything.
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u/moroi Feb 12 '24
Woke is Critical Theory (Neo-Marxism, Max Horkheimer) applied to Intersectionality (Kimberle Crenshaw). It is a framework for viewing the world through a dialectical lens.
Today it pretty much means politization of race, gender, and other inherent characteristics and turning them into political weapon with which you can attack the opposition.
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u/infinitemortis Feb 12 '24
I gotta agree with you on this one.
The woke controversies are real with a lot of the other game but Alan wake was not one of them.
Yeah saga Anderson was made to be originally white but when you think about it, it makes sense for the narrative. Not only to not confuse the audience with another white girl in the main story, but also to set her apart from the crowd she’s involved in throughout the game. We know she isn’t meant to be related to the members of the old gods of Asgard, and it was the only immersion break that made me think oh that was clever cause if she were white then I’d actually be considering the insanity of saga
(I haven’t finished the game yet i half way thru)
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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts Feb 13 '24
(I haven’t finished the game yet i half way thru)
Might want to get on that before making confident assertions about the lore.
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u/infinitemortis Feb 13 '24
👁️👄👁️ Now I’m excited.
Cause I’ve been listening to nothing but a very woke reviews of games and they keep throwing Alan wake in and I feel like it doesn’t deserve it
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u/loserz_club Feb 12 '24
u/Illustrious_Water_61 help me bro
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u/JooshMaGoosh Feb 13 '24
"Alan woke" is bullshit the story is hardly "woke" and the only woke thing is the fuckin race swap but even then I'd argue people aren't mad at the race swap itself or even think that the race swapping is in itself "woke" more so people are upset that the race swap undermines the whole remedy connected universe by pulling from QB but also pretending it doesn't exist and that they weren't doing that... When they literally recreated a shot from it.
And used the same names.
And had the title of the short they are from titled "return"
This is remedy so you cant even say they didn't know what they were doing as.... This is remedy we are talking about here.
People are mainly mad that remedy let sweet baby come in and make changes. Changes that were made to "appeal to modern audiences" and in doing so kinda undermined the whole RCU.
Just because I feel I gotta make this clear before I get stoned to death by a Reddit echo chamber... I don't dislike saga or her character in Alan Wake 2. I'm just simply stating how i see it.
Edit: to also kinda argue for the race swap people who are freaking out about it seem to forget the story also heavily implies Saga's mother was white (well kinda... There is a line where saga bitches about her life being controlled by white people lmao) as tor & Odin (one of em) is related to her as her grandpa. This doesn't outright confirm her mom was white but with tor & Odin being how they are plus her name being Freya would lend credence to her being white.
This all to say, it doesn't matter in the end.
(Though some people will keep going and say shit like "well saga shouldn't be black if her mom was white as race is usually defined by the mother" but at that point you can just say "I'm racist & unhappy" or something like that)
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u/derPylz Feb 13 '24
We see Freya in the game. She was white.
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u/JooshMaGoosh Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
When? Is in the mind place?
Edit: also that just confirms what I'm saying though... Her race doesn't matter in the end as she could've been either.
The only reason imo that I believe people are upset over the race swap and using that to call the story "Alan woke" is because they feel it undermines remedy's entire process and hurts the RCU they built as a result. Even if that result is really only superficial when thoughtfully examined.
Again, saga as a character is fine.
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u/LargoDeluxe Park Ranger Feb 13 '24
Freya and baby Saga are in a painting hanging in Odin's room at Valhalla. Freya is white.
Also, you might want to ask Barack Obama about whether "race is defined by the mother," which is a notably scorching-hot take in a post that already has several.
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u/RogueShadowUnit Feb 13 '24
Do people actually say that?!? I literally say Alan Woke to my friends as a satyrical joke. People say that shit about anything.
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u/Shanbo88 Champion of Light Feb 13 '24
Why make a post to say don't look them up? People will obviously do it if you don't explain what they are and you're just driving more attention their way.
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u/Tom0511 Feb 13 '24
Can you post a link? I'm curious to see what this is all about. When I try to search, it just comes up with Alan Wake stuff
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u/Affectionate_Yam5438 Feb 13 '24
One female character casually mentioning her ex-wife ONCE Them: ITS SO FUCKING WOKE THEY ARE TRYING TO RAM IT DOWN OUR THROATS 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Lobster9 Feb 12 '24
All these people are just riding the algorithm. Half of these accounts don't even consume any of the media they rant about. It's just coal for a content furnace.